Payton Walsh.
He's in the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv.
Nick, what more?
First of all,
can you tell us about General
Sir of ICANN's relationship
with the head of the group
whose whereabouts are also murky tonight?
Yeah, I mean, as you say,
we don't know where he is.
He hasn't been seen in public
since that video you just saw on Friday
where he appealed
to foreign mercenaries to turn around
and not advance
continue their advance towards Moscow.
There have been some media reports
suggesting that he may indeed
have been detained,
some suggesting
he may indeed have been arrested.
But a Russian official
with severe knowledge
of the pretrial detention
prison
system says that he's not in that system.
So a lot of uncertainty
as to exactly
whether he has been interrogated
and let go or quite
where he is
was pretty clear
is he's not going to be happy
to hear about reports
of being a VIP member of whatever
that means.
There's something you apply for or get
given unilaterally.
But also, Prigozhin himself, frankly,
was the only the only command
in the Russian military.
He spoke highly of or complimentary
of was indeed, Sue Rivkin.
So clearly,
the men were relatively close
and precautions of darkness
sort of rose to the incident.
See while
Rivkin was running the Ukraine war.
But really above all of this, Wolf,
whatever the truth of the matter
of all these bits
of kompromat, compromising information
being given out
about the Russian top brass,
it just speaks to the utter disunity
that will be currently taking place
with inside
the Russian Ministry of Defense
and the Kremlin.
They are clearly on a bit of a witch
hunt now,
trying to work out who knew in advance
who didn't do enough to stop
what's been called the march of justice
towards Moscow.
And that is exactly what here in Kiev
they are keen to see expand.
But also what
a country in a disastrous war
like Russia does not need.
They're going to have to make
some difficult choices
on the battlefield soon.
But it seems right now
they're far too busy
pointing the finger at each other.
While Putin himself
appears to be less
and less calling the shots.
Nick, stick around.
I'll get back to you in a few moments.
I also want to bring in retired U.S.
General Spider Marks.
He's a CNN military analyst General.
Let me get your reaction,
first of all, to this exclusive
new reporting from Matthew Chance.
Documents suggesting General
Sara weaken was a secret member of the
Wagner mercenary group
Wolf,
you know, what that
tells me
is that there's this
what we've suspected all along,
this cancer of corruption
within minimally
within the ministry of defense.
But clearly
throughout all those elements
of governance
within the Russian Federation,
I mean, how can a professional soldier,
a professional soldier
also have
a relationship,
obviously a fiduciary relationship
with a paramilitary group,
if nothing else,
it talks about really lousy tradecraft.
I mean, if you're going to try
to have a secretive
relationship, don't
sign up for a membership card,
which is exactly what he did.
It really speaks to the fragility.
As Nick
Paton Walsh just indicated,
the real fragility
within the Ministry of Defense
in terms of what other heads
are going to fall.
Who truly is in charge
and who's going to step up
in order to advance what Russia sees
as a legitimate effort on their part
in Ukraine?
Let me get back to Nick.
Nick, Putin
maybe looking for scapegoats right now
after that mutiny,
but are there risks to making Prigozhin
and sir, a vegan, for that matter,
into martyrs?
Well, that was ultimately, I
think, what was in the background
as we saw this sort of extraordinary
lack of military and political opposition
to Prigozhin
as he marched on the weekend
up towards Moscow.
I think most people interpreted
that as perhaps the Kremlin
simply not being sure
that if they really went
for Prigozhin and his men,
that they had the strength
to take them on,
but also to that they might actually find
that essentially improve their position
because they would be asking
the Russian military to turn on Vadim,
who done so much of the fierce
fighting on the Ukrainian front line,
very brutal as they are
over the past year or so.
So enormous question, frankly,
as to what
this residual support
potentially for both men
may be within the military.
Sort of
he can was a man who was respected,
I think is fair to say,
inside the military.
And many of Russia's key battlefields,
including Syria over the past years.
And Prigozhin, despite being.
I think it's fair to say
pretty mouthy, pretty bombastic,
certainly to lead a group
which held back moot, fought for back.
And so I think
ultimately what Putin is left
dealing with now is a military
that's divided.
A military
that may be questioning quite
what his motivations are
and the military to maybe
looking at some of their top brass,
like sort of
he can get people like Prigozhin
and seeing them
possibly being persecuted.
Prigozhin almost certainly.
And wondering what that says about
Putin's own motivation.
Remember,
he chose to fight this war,
an invasion of choice.
It's gone pretty catastrophically wrong.
And tens of thousands of Russians
have lost their lives.
That's going to be making a mark
on the personal lives
of many Russian families.
And so I think we're
at an inflection point,
certainly in the days
ahead to see quite how this plays
out of Russian Putin's
grip on the military, on the Kremlin.
And that, of course, here in Ukraine
is what they are relishing,
what they're waiting for, and may explain
why we haven't seen a sudden surge
in Ukrainian forces on the battlefield.
They're just watching this play out
because each day
it seems that the military
are turning on each other
rather than fighting harder here.
Yes, very dramatic indeed.
Nick, Paton Walsh.
Retired General Marks, guys, thank you
very much.