Judy: The leader of the
far-right militia group, the
oath keepers, returned to the
witness stand in federal court
today. Stewart Rhodes is
testifying in his own defense
against seditious conspiracy
charges that stem from his role
in the January 6th attack on the
us capitol.
-- U.S. Capitol.
John yang has more.
John: Judy, Rhodes testified
today that he had no intention
of entering the capitol or
disrupting the electoral vote
count on January 6.
On cross-examination,
prosecutors pressed him on the
oath keepers reputation as an
anti government militia.
Carrie Johnson is NPR's justice
department correspondent and has
been in the courtroom nearly
every day of the trial.
Thank you for joining us.
A defendant taking the stand
allows him to present his case
to the jury in his own voice.
But it also allows the
prosecution to question him.
How did each side of that
equation work for roads?
Carrie: Stewart Rhodes is a
smart guy.
He is a D.L. Lawsuit -- a Yale
law school graduate.
He had a good amount of time to
tell his story.
He told this jury he grew up
basically dirt poor, part of a
migrant farmworker family out at
California.
And that he considers himself to
be a quarter mexican-american.
He says he supports law
enforcement, that he is
nonviolent, as many as 30% of
the members of this far right
oath keepers group are actually
current or former law
enforcement officials around the
country.
And Rhodes says he was not
involved in any planning for the
January 6 attack on the U.S.
Capitol.
He did not go inside the
building.
When he found out some people
affiliated with him did, he said
it was a stupid idea that
allowed his political enemies to
persecute him and that is how he
wound up here sitting in this
witness chair in front of a
jury, fighting for his legal
life.
John: What did the prosecution
-- did the prosecution make any
dent in his story?
Carrie: The main witness again
-- against Rhodes has been his
own words, his own text messages
on this encrypted signal app,
videos, and other statements
that he has made.
The prosecutor tried to
dismantle Stewart Rhodes on the
witness stand using his own
words.
Rhodes says he was engaged in
bombast and big talk.
But she showed a lot of
evidence, including text
messages a few days before the
assault on the capital, that
said that they will not fear as
until we come with rifles in
hand.
We need to push trump to do his
duty.
And if he doesn't, we will do
hours, Stewart Rhodes allegedly
type.
Then she played for the jury at
the end of her cross-examination
a recording that someone made of
Stewart Rhodes a few days after
the assault on the capital --
capitol, where Rhodes said his
only regret was he did not bring
rifles.
Then he engaged in violent
rhetoric involving Nancy Pelosi.
The jury was playing close
attention -- paying close
attention, taking lots of notes.
I saw a couple of the jurors
make faces at Stewart Rhodes as
he went into long-winded
explanations on
cross-examination.
That does not mean they are
going to a victim of conspiracy
or any other charge.
But he may have turned off some
members of this jury.
John: This trial has been going
on for six weeks.
Delayed by a lot of things.
You have been in the courtroom
all but one day.
What has a bit -- what has it
been like?
Carrie: There have been moments
of incredibly high drama and
personal turmoil.
This is about the assault on the
U.S. Capitol, people died at the
capitol.
Law enforcement officers took
their own lives.
Over 140 police and law
enforcement were injured that
day.
It could not be more serious.
But the introduction of a lot of
these documents has at times
been slow.
It is quite interesting to watch
the jurors take in all of this
evidence.
We did hear from several people
who had been affiliated with the
oath keepers, who basically got
out before January 6, 2021,
because they were so worried
about the rhetoric, and the way
the rhetoric was trending.
The idea that this jury has
heard from Stewart Rhodes
himself is going to be a pivotal
moment.
We are going to hear from other
defense witnesses for the rest
of this week, too.
John: How much longer is this
trial going to go on?
Carrie: I wish I could offer a
prediction.
I hope we are going to be done
by Thanksgiving.
With so many unexpected things
including one of the defendants
getting covid and delaying the
trial, one of the lawyers in the
case having an accident on a
scooter and breaking his arm,
I'm leaving room for the
unexpected.
One of the jurors says they are
moving out of state a few days
before Thanksgiving.
Let's hope we are done by then.
John: Carrie Johnson of NPR,
thank you very much.
Carrie: My pleasure.