THAT.
GOOGLE DIDN'T LOBBY THEM TO
RESTRICT WORKER RIGHTS.
THEY HAVE DONE THAT IN A AREA
AND THAT IS ON GOING THING WITH
THE NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS
BOARD.
NEIL: MAYBE YOU CAN HELP US WITH
THIS, THE COMPANY CAN BE SEEN TO
BE SAYING THIS WAS SOMETHING
THEY THOUGHT LONG AND HARD OVER
HERE AND THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT
TO TREAT YOU UNFAIRLY BUT THEY
FELT YOUR COMMENTS LEFT THEM NO
OTHER CHOICE, QUOTING, THIS
COMING FROM THE COMPANY TODAY,
BECAUSE WE ASKED FOR A
STATEMENT, THEIR HR MANAGER
SAYING THAT I WANT TO MAKE CLEAR
OUR DECISION IS BASED SOLELY ON
THE PART OF YOUR POST THAT
GENERALIZING AND ADVANCING
STEREOTYPES ABOUT WOMEN VERSUS
MEN.
IT IS NOT BASED IN ANY WAY OF
THE EMPLOYEES'S POSTS, PROGRAMS
OR TRAINING.
AGAIN AND AGAIN WHEN YOU
DIFFERENTIATED BETWEEN CAPACITY
WHERE MEN AND WOMEN HANDLED JOB
THAT IS WHERE YOU CROSSED LINE.
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT?
>> THEY DIDN'T THINK LONG AND
HARD ABOUT THIS.
AFTER IT WAS VIRAL, THEY FIRED
ME MONDAY RIGHT AFTER THAT.
I REPEAT OVER AND OVER IN THE
DOCUMENT WE SHOULDN'T STEREOTYPE
PEOPLE AND THERE IS LARGE
DISTRIBUTIONS BUT THIS IS REALLY
IMPORTANT IN JUST HEARING OUT
WHY WE SEE CERTAIN TRENDS.
NEIL: WHEN YOU SAY WHY YOU SEE
CERTAIN TRENDS, TO BE CLEAR ON
THIS, WHY SUCH A SMALL PERCENT
OF THAT WORKFORCE, NOT ONLY
GOOGLE ACROSS THE WHOLE TECH
INDUSTRY, YOU CITE SOME OF THESE
REASONS, WHETHER IT'S A
TEMPERMENT ISSUE OR WHETHER A
BIOLOGICAL ISSUE, COULD YOU SEE
HOW A COMPANY WOULD RESPOND TO
SAY, IS THIS YOUR THINKING,
ADDRESSING OTHER WORKERS THERE,
IS THIS YOUR THINKING GOOGLE?
DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS?
>> I THINK GOOGLE CAN HAVE THEIR
OWN OPINION ON THIS BUT I THINK
THAT THIS IS WELL-FOUNDED
PSYCHOLOGICAL RESEARCH AND IT
REALLY SHOULD BE USED IF WE WANT
TO IMPROVE THE WORK PLACE.
NEIL: SO TO ADDRESS THAT HOW
WOULD THE NUMBERS IMPROVE FOR
MORE FEMALES IN YOUR INDUSTRY AT
THAT FORMER COMPANY AND
ELSEWHERE ACROSS SILICON VALLEY?
>> IF THEY USED THIS AND
ACTUALLY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT,
THEN WE CAN REALLY MAKE TECH A
MORE APPEALING PLACE FOR WOMEN.
NEIL: ALL RIGHT.
BUT IT ISN'T RIGHT NOW.
AND IS IT YOUR SENSE THAT IT
SHOULD BE EQUAL?
YOU SHOULD HAVE EQUAL NUMBER OF
MEN AND WOMEN?
OR IS IT JUST THE NATURE OF THE
BEAST, THAT IN THIS AREA IT WILL
BE DISPROPORTIONALLY MEN?
>> I THINK MAYBE IT WON'T
NECESSARILY BE EQUAL NUMBER BUT
THAT DOWN MEAN THAT IT SHOULD BE
BUILT SOLELY FOR MEN.
IT SHOULD BE WELCOMING BOTH TO
MEN AND WOMEN.
NEIL: SO WHEN, WHEN YOU'RE
HEARING THIS FROM THE, AS A
WOMAN, OTHER WOMEN TOOK OFFENSE,
NOT ALL, I WANT TO STRESS, NOT
ALL, TO YOU?
>> NOT AT ALL, NEIL.
I'M NOT THREATENED BY DIFFERENT
VIEWPOINTS BEING DISCUSSED.
SEEMS LIKE TODAY EVERYBODY IS A
SNOWFLAKE AND CAN'T HEAR A
DIFFERENT VIEWPOINT.
I THINK THAT YOU KNOW, WOMEN
SHOULD BE FREE TO MAKE THEIR OWN
CHOICES.
THAT IS WHAT THEY'RE DOING HERE.
THERE WAS AN INTERESTING, SOME
DISCUSSIONS CAME OUTS OVER THE
WEEKEND, SOME STUDIES HAVE SHOWN
THAT IN COUNTRIES WHERE WOMEN
HAVE MORE CHOICES LIKE THE
UNITED STATES, THERE ARE FEWER
WOMEN IN TECH.
WOMEN HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT
CHOICES IN THIS COUNTRY.
MORE REPRESSIVE COUNTRIES MORE
LIMITED MEAD EASTERN, WHERE I
COME FROM IN INDIA, WOMEN HAVE
VERY MUCH FEWER CHOICES IN THE
CAREER WORK PLACE.
THEY'RE LIMITED TO CERTAIN
RESPECTABLE OCCUPATIONS.
SO WHAT JAMES WAS TRYING TO DO
IN THE MEMO TO POINT OUT HOW
GOOGLE COULD DO A BETTER JOB
ATTRACTING TO WOMEN BY NOT
SHAMING AND DEGRADING MEN AND --
WHICH HAS BEEN DONE BY
EXECUTIVES AT GOOGLE BUT FOLLOW
THE LAW AND MAKE IT MORE
ATTRACTIVE.
THAT IS MARKET BASED SOLUTION.
MOST OF US WHO ARE MORE
CONSERVATIVE BELIEVE IN MARKET
BASED SOLUTIONS.
GOOGLE IS FAILING IN THE MARKET
PLACE TO BE ATTRACTIVE TO WOMEN.
GOOGLE SHOULD BE MORE WELCOME TO
OPPORTUNITIES --
NEIL: QUOTING FROM THEIR
STATEMENT HERE TO ME.
JAMES, I WANT YOU TO ANSWER HERE
TO THIS, THEY ARGUE AGAIN AND
AGAIN IN THE STATEMENT THIS HAD
NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR
POLITICAL VIEWPOINTS.
SAYING HAVING DIFFERENT
POLITICAL VIEW IS ABSOLUTELY
FINE.
ADVANCING GENDER STEREOTYPES IS
NOT.
YOUR REACTION.
>> THEY CAN CLAIM THAT IT WASN'T
ABOUT POLITICS BUT WE SEE TIME
AND AGAIN THAT THEY MAKE
POLITICALLY-MOTIVATED ACTIONS
AND, THIS WASN'T AN ISOLATED
INCIDENT.
NEIL: WHEN YOU SAY NOT AN
ISOLATED INCIDENT, WE'RE TOLD IN
SILICON VALLEY, IN THE HIGH-TECH
WORLD IN GENERAL THAT TO MENTION
EVEN THE PRESIDENT'S NAME OR
REPUBLICANS IN GENERAL IS
VERBOTEN, IT IS A CAREER RISK.
WAS IT, IS IT?
>> YES.
THE GENERAL SENTIMENT, YOU DON'T
KNOW ANYONE THAT VOTED FOR TRUMP
BECAUSE NO ONE IS WILLING TO
ADMIT THAT THEY DID.
AND IT IS REALLY UNFORTUNATE
THAT PEOPLE CAN'T BRING THEIR
WHOLE SELFS TO WORK.
NEIL: WERE THERE QUIET CLOSET
TRUMP VOTERS THAT WERE CHEERING
YOU ON?
>> YES, THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE
THAT SHOWED THEIR SUPPORT
PRIVATELY BUT TOLD ME THEY
REALLY WEREN'T WILLING TO SHOW
ANY PUBLIC SUPPORT BECAUSE THEY
TOO FEARED THEY WOULD GET FIRED.
NEIL: WAS IT YOUR VIEW, AFTER
YOU WILL OF THIS WHERE THEY SAY
YOUR VIEWS, PARTICULARLY
REGARDING WOMEN, WERE ANATHEMA
TO THE COMPANY, THAT YOU WERE
ALMOST TREATED AS SOME SORT OF A
RIGHT-WING KOOK?
DID THAT BOTHER YOU?
>> YES.
THEY DEFINITELY TRIED TO SMEAR
ME AS SOME MISOGYNOUS, RACIST,
YOU KNOW, CRAZY PERSON, AND I
WAS REALLY JUST TRYING TO
IMPROVE THE WORK PLACE.
SO IT'S REALLY UNFORTUNATE.
I FELT BETRAYED BY THEM.
NEIL: SO WHAT DO YOU NOW?
WHAT DO YOU GUYS DO NOW?
SEPARATELY THE NLRB IS ONE
ISSUE.
BUT WHERE DO YOU GO, WHERE DO
YOU GO WITH THIS NOW?
>> WE HAVE THIS LAWSUIT PENDING
AND WE HAVE BEEN CONTACTED BY
LITERALLY DOZENS AND DOZENS OF
PEOPLE.
IT IS LIKE OVERWHELMING NUMBER
OF PEOPLE CALLING OUR OFFICE
WANTING TO JOIN THE LAWSUIT.
PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T GET JOBS AT
GOOGLE, BASED ON GENDER, RACE,
POLITICAL ORIENTATION.
DISCRIMINATED OTHERWISE.
NEIL: HOW WOULD THEIR POLITICAL
AFFILIATIONS COME UP?
I GUESS IF YOU'RE GOOGLE YOU
KNOW?
>> YOU WOULD GOOGLE THEM
OBVIOUSLY.
IT DOES COME UP, DOES COME UP IN
INTERVIEWS.
IT DOES COME UP, IT IS READILY
AVAILABLE TO PEOPLE.
WE HAVE NUMEROUS EXAMPLES OF
PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN STOPPED
DURING THE INTERVIEW PROCESS
BECAUSE OF THEIR BACKGROUND AND
THEIR VIEWPOINTS.
THIS IS PERVASIVE PROBLEM.
GOOGLE IS DEFINITELY THE WORST
OFFENDER.
BUT OTHER COMPANIES IN SILICON
VALLEY --
NEIL: IF YOU WENT TO LEFT-WING
RALLY OR HILLARY CLINTON RALLY,
FREE THE INTERNET RALLY,
WHATEVER, YOU WOULD NOT BE HELD
ACCOUNTABLE FOR THAT OR YOU
WOULD NOT BE PUNISHED FOR THAT,
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?
>> TO THE CONTRARY.
IT IS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR
DOMINATED WORK PLACE AT GOO GEL.
NEIL: IS IT A GOOD COMPANY?
DO YOU THINK GOOGLE IS A GOOD
COMPANY?
>> THEY MAKE GOOD PRODUCTS BUT I
THINK IT IS BECOMING MORE AND
MORE HOSTILE TO WORK THERE IF
YOU HAVE CONSERVATIVE
VIEWPOINTS.
NEIL: WHAT IF YOU'RE A WOMAN, IS
IT A HOSTILE WORK ENVIRONMENT?
>> I THINK IT IS ACTUALLY VERY
WELCOMING TO WOMEN AND IT'S,
IT'S NOT THIS, TECH BRO CULTURE
THAT PEOPLE MAKE SILICON VALLEY