>>> WELCOME BACK. DEMOCRATS ARE FIRED UP OVER THE
LATEST VACANCY IN THE SUPREME
COURT.
COURT. HOW CAN THEY CHANNEL THAT ANGER
INTO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE
JOINING ME NOW, BEN WICKLER OF
MOVE ON.ORG.
MOVE ON.ORG. WELCOME BACK.
WELCOME BACK. >> THANKS FOR THE CHANCE TO BE
HERE.
HERE. >> IT SEEMS LIKE THE DEMOCRATS
FALL INTO THREE CAMPS, THE
LEADERSHIP IS LOOKING FOR A WAY
TO KEEP THE PARTY UNITED IN
CHUCK SCHUMER AND GOING FOR
DELAY.
DELAY. YOU HAVE GOT MODERATES LOOKING
OUT FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR OWN
RE-ELECTION.
RE-ELECTION. UNDERSTANDABLE.
UNDERSTANDABLE. AND THEN THOSE BACK IN THE SPACE
THEY FEEL LIKE OH, MY GOD LOOK
AT WHAT THEY DID TO MERRICK
GARLAND.
GARLAND. I CAN’T BELIEVE THIS.
THEY WANT TO DO SOMETHING.
THERE IS REALLY NOTHING
DEMOCRATS CAN DO.
YET I TAKE IT YOU WANT THEM TO
DO SOMETHING.
DO SOMETHING. >> THERE IS SOMETHING THEY CAN
DO.
DO. THAT IS USING THE MORAL FORCE OF
ARGUMENTS ABOUT WHAT A FIFTH
HYPER CONSERVATIVE ON THE
SUPREME COURT HAD DO TO HUMAN
LIVES, WOMEN’S REPRODUCTIVE
FREEDOM, CRIMINALIZING ABORTION,
TO OUR HEALTH CARE, SLEDDING UP
PROTECTIONS FOR PEOPLE WITH
PREEXISTING CONDITIONS.
PREEXISTING CONDITIONS. THE FREEDOM TO MAYBE WHAT YOU
LOVE.
LOVE. THOSE ARE THE THINGS PEOPLE
UNDERSTAND IN THEIR OWN LIVES.
IF WE BRING IT BACK, NOT
PROCEDURAL OR POLITICAL
ARGUMENTS, IF WE BRING IT BACK
ALWAYS TO HOW IT’S ACTUALLY
GOING TO AFFECT PEOPLE’S FREEDOM
AND LIFE OR DEATH RIGHT NOW
THAT’S THE KIND OF MORAL
ARGUMENT IF MADE WITH THE KIND
OF ENERGY WE HAD IN THE HEALTH
CARE FIGHT THAT’S OUR BEST SHOT
AT ACTUALLY WINNING THERE.
>> LET ME ASK YOU THIS.
>> YES.
>> YES. >> WHY IS IT THAT YOUR SIDE OF
THE AISLE, PROGRESSIVES, DON’T
UNIFY IN THE JUDGE ISSUE THE WAY
COULD BE SERVE TIFFS -- LIKE
CONSERVATIVES DECIDED THIS WAS A
HILL TO DIE ON ABOUT 25 YEARS
AGO.
AGO. AND THEY BUILT A FORTRESS TO
BASICALLY -- TO FIGHT THESE
FIGHTS IN THE JUDICIARY BRANCH.
THE PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT SEEMS
TO GET UPSET ABOUT THE COURT
AFTER THE FACT, NEVER BEFORE THE
FACT.
FACT. WHY IS THAT?
>> HISTORICALLY IT’S LIKE
ANTI-WAR MOVEMENTS WHICH TEND TO
GET GOING AFTER THE WAR BEGINS.
I THINK THIS TIME IT’S GOING TO
BE DIFFERENT.
BE DIFFERENT. THE FIFTH VOTE ON ROE V WADE,
THE FIFTH VOTE ON MARRIAGE
EQUALITY.
EQUALITY. THE FIFTH VOTE ON THE GAINS THAT
HAVE BEEN MADE, AND CRUCIAL
THING THAT PEOPLE SORT OF EXPECT
TO BE PART OF THEIR LIVES,
THAT’S NOW AT STAKE.
THAT’S IN DANGER.
AND WE HAVEN’T HAD A VOTE THAT
SHIFTED THE BALANCE OF POWER IN
THE COURT IN THE SAME WAY UNTIL
NOW.
NOW. THERE IS THIS POWERFUL
PSYCHOLOGY OF LOSS AVERSION.
PEOPLE REALLY FIGHT TO AVOID
LOSING SOMETHING THIS THEY HAVE
COUNTED ON.
COUNTED ON. RIGHT NOW SUDDENLY THAT’S WHAT’S
ON THE TABLE HERE.
>> IN HINDSIGHT WHAT WAS THE
MISTAKE YOU THINK DEMOCRATS DID
THE ’16 WITH THIS SEAT?
IN BEHIND SIGHT WHAT WAS THE
MISTAKE.
MISTAKE. >> THERE WAS A HIGH MINDED
ARGUMENT FOR MERRICK GARLAND.
HE IS A WONDERFUL GUY AND JURIST
BY ALL ACCOUNTS.
HE DIDN’T FIRE UP GRASSROOTS --
>> WHY?
>> WHY? BECAUSE HE WAS A WHITE GUY.
>> A WHITE GUY, A OLDER WHITE
GUY, AND A PERSON WITH THE TRACK
RECORD OF THE MOST MEASURED
CAREFUL OPINIONS, NOT SOMEBODY
WHO WAS CHAMPIONING.
>> WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS DON’T
BE A RADICAL MODERATE?
>> YEAH, I’M SAYING IF YOU WANT
PEOPLE TO WAKE UP AND THINK HOW
DO I GOET THAT GUY ON THE COURT
YOU HAVE GOT TO GET A GUY UP WHO
CHAMPIONS A VISION OF JUSTICE
THAT PEOPLE CAN PLAY OUT IN
THEIR OWN LIVES.
>> WHEN HAVE THE DEMOCRATS EVER
DONE THAT FOR A SUPREME COURT
NOMINEE, THOUGH.
NOMINEE, THOUGH. >> THAT’S A GREAT QUESTION.
>> THEY LOVE RUTH BADER GINSBURG
NOW.
NOW. I COVERED THAT.
THAT WAS ONE OF MY EARLY YEARS.
I CONTENT REMEMBER A GROUND
SWELL.
SWELL. STEPHEN BREYER WAS A SECOND
CHOICE OF CLINTON’S AT THE TIME.
THAT’S THE SAME THING.
WHEN HAVE DEMOCRATS EVER GOTTEN
EXCITEABOUT A COURT PICK?
>> INTHERE IS A NOBLE HIGH
MINDED VIEW OF THE CLASSICAL
IDEA OF HOW COURTS WORK THAT HAS
REIGNED ON THE LEFT, EXCUSE ME,
AMONG DEMOCRATS FOR MAYBE THE
LAST CENTURY AND IT HASN’T
CAUGHT UP TO THE REALITY THAT ON
THE RIGHT THERE IS A VERY CLEAR
INSTRUMENTAL VIEW OF THE COURTS
AS AN INSTRUMENT OF PARTISAN
WARFARE AND AS AN EXTENSION OF
THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT.
THERE IS AN APPARATUS BUILT
AROUND THIS RULE.
>> DO YOU THINK THE LEFTS THEN
CAN ACCEPT THAT PREMISE THAT THE
COURTS ARE ALSO A PARTISAN
PLAYGROUND.
PLAYGROUND. BASICALLY THE REPUBLICANS
DECIDED WE ARE GOING TO MAKE IT
PARTISAN.
PARTISAN. WE ARE GOING TO FIGHT IT AS A
PARTISAN WARFARE.
PARTISAN WARFARE. THERE ARE LIBERALS ON THE COURT
LET’S GET CONSERVE TIFFS ON THE
COURTS.
COURTS. AND DEMOCRATS ARE STUCK IN THE
IDEA THAT THE COURT IS SUPPOSED
TO BE THE UMPIRE.
>> THIS IS THE TIME THAT WE NEED
TO FIGHT THAT WAR.
LIKE IT OR NOT.
I THINK THAT SHIFT HAS COME.
AND I THINK SAW THAT WAR BEING
DECLARED WITH WHAT THEY DID TO
MERRICK GARLAND.
MERRICK GARLAND. YOU ARE GOING TO SEE IT THOUSAND
WITH A PREAPPROVED PREVETTED
LIST OF ROE V WADE CONSERVATIVES
THAT RUMP IS GOING TO PICK FROM.
AT THIS POINT THE WRITING IS ON
THE WALL.
THE WALL. WHILE THERE WERE SOME STUMBLES
OUT OF THE GATE WE ARE GOING TO
SEE SOMETHING DIFFERENT FROM
COURT FIGHTS IN THE PAST.
>> WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, A IN HOW
QUESTIONS ARE ASKED BY THE
DEMOCRATS ON THE JUDICIARY OR
ABOUT COAT HANGERS.
>> IT’S GOING TO BE 20s IN
ALASKA AND MAINE AND ANYONE WHO
MIGHT BE ON THE FENCE.
>> YOU ARE GOING TO TARGET THE
THREE DEMOCRATS WE SAW AT THE
WHITE HOUSE AND ANY OTHER
WAVERERS AND THEN YOU ARE GOING
TO TARGET THOSE TWO REPUBLICANS.
>> CERTAINLY ANY DEMOCRAT AND
ABSOLUTELY THOSE TWO
REPUBLICANS.
REPUBLICANS. I THINK CORKER AND FLAKE HAVE TO
ANSWER FOR THIS QUESTION OF DO
YOU WANT THE PRESIDENT TO PICK
SOMEONE WHO CAN PASS THE
DECISION THAT THE PRESIDENT CAN
PARDON HIMSELF, CARRY THE
PRESIDENT’S WATER.
PRESIDENT’S WATER. >> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. >> BUT THE GRASSROOTS PRESSURE,
PEOPLE HAVENT APPROXIMATE UP
FEAR AND OUTRAGE ABOUT WHAT
COULD HAPPEN TO THEM.
IT’S GOING TO CHANNEL ITSELF
INTO GRASSROOTS PRESSURE
EVERYWHERE THAT SENATORS GO,
WHEREVER THEY SPEAK.
>> IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THE
PROGRESSIVES HAVE 20 FIGHTS.
IS THAT PART OF THE PROBLEM,
CONCENTRATING ON ONE FIGHT
RATHER THAN 20?
>> THE WEIRD THING ABOUT THE
TRUMP ERA IS THAT IN THE PAST IT
WAS ALWAYS WHICH PLACE DO WE
FOCUS.
FOCUS. NOW THERE IS PLENTY OF ENERGY TO
GO AROUND.
GO AROUND. >> YOU ARE SAYING FIGHT ALL 20
FIGHTS?
FIGHTS? >> I THINK WE ARE --
>> AT THE SAME TIME.
>> TOMORROW THERE WILL BE A
MARCH WITH HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS
OF PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
>> ON IMMIGRATION.
>> ON IMMIGRATION.
THE PEOPLE WHO ARE AT THAT MARCH
ON MONDAY WILL CALL THEIR
SENATORS AND DEMAND THEY GET
READY TO REJECT AN EXTREMIST
SUPREME COURT JUDGE.
>> BY THE WAY YOU ARE ALREADY
JUDGING AN EXTREMIST.
WE DON’T KNOW WHAT THE NOMINEE
IS GOING TO BE.
>> WE KNOW THERE IS A LIST OF
PEOPLE SELECTED BECAUSE THEY ARE
ON BOARD WITH --
>> WE DON’T KNOW WHO HE IS GOING
TO NOMINATE.
TO NOMINATE. >> IF HE NOMINATES MERRICK
GARLAND I WOULD SAY HE IS FANLLY