OK, folks, I was about 20 pages into our current book club
read, John Dewey's "Art As Experience,"
when I realized that very few of you
were actually going to read this book.
Yeah, because it is impenetrable.
So we're not going to pretend that you actually read this.
Instead, this is going to be the most awesome kind of book club
where we read the books, and tell you
what's important with no pressure for you
to read it at all.
I, I did not read it, actually.
I read, I read about 20 pages.
Well, I did.
So let's start out with a little context about John Dewey.
Yeah, so John Dewey was a, uh, philosopher
who was extremely important in the school
of American pragmatism.
And he was tremendously important,
particularly in education.
Like, part of the reason that you go to public school
is John Dewey.
And you must remember that this was published in 1934, which
was quite a long time ago.
A lot has changed.
It was really progressive at the time,
but now there's some stuff that you have to overlook.
Like the constant use of, uh, "man" when he means human.
It was very distracting to me, because in almost
every sentence of the book he talks about the nature of man,
or the will of man, or whatever, and I just want to be like,
or woman.
So we're going to spare you a close reading of this book,
and instead we're going to talk about some quotes
and some big ideas.
Because there are actually really interesting ideas inside
of this book, it's just that they're
disguised by, like, 80-year-old dead, cold prose.
I'm sorry.
I really did not like this book.
So Dewey's biggest idea in this book
is art is not just the thing itself.
Yeah, there's a quote about this. "The actual work of art
is what the product does with and in experience."
So what he's basically saying is a sculpture alone
in a gallery isn't really artwork.
It's artwork when people go in and they walk around it
and they talk about it and they experience it.
And he also goes on to describe, like,
art not being an object but kind of an intensified experience.
Another big idea that I think is really interesting
that's in the book is that, uh, art should not be
remitted to a separate realm.
Like, when art is put into the world of museums and galleries
and seen as separate from, like, regular life
and regular people, it's bad both for art and for people.
Right.
And he blames this on a lot of different things,
like imperialism, and sort of the loot of war,
and capitalism, and all of these things
that have served to remove art from life,
take it out of our communities and kind of box it up
and put it in these cold, dead museums.
So Dewey's arguing that when you take these things out
of life, out of their context, they become less interesting.
And so for Dewey, he's not at all surprised
that people, most people, aren't that interested in art.
And I think that that's a really fascinating thing
to think about.
And it used to be that you didn't have to convince people
that art was important, at least according to Dewey,
because art was just part of life.
When it was masks, when it was looking at the fire
and seeing the shapes that would develop,
nobody questioned whether that was important.
One of the things I can't really understand
is, like, what the difference between art experiences
and non-art experiences is.
He doesn't totally answer that.
But in general, he says that an art experience
is an experience.
Like, you say, like, well, that was an experience,
and it's something that has sort of unity and closure.
And I don't necessarily believe that.
I think there's a lot of good art
that kind of acknowledges the fractured and open-endedness
of experience.
I, I also, uh, have some closed experiences
that are definitely not art, like watching
Liverpool play West Brom.
So one of the great things about Dewey's philosophy
is that it's completely open to all of the arts.
He talks a lot about music.
He talks about dance.
He talks about all these different realms.
And doesn't sort of delineate them into different worlds.
And I think that's sort of an important and really
progressive approach.
So you're saying that he could think of Liverpool as art?
Sure.
So, Sarah, during the 20 pages of this book that I read,
um, I would estimate that the word "esthetic"
was used perhaps 400,000 times.
No, not that many.
It was a lot.
You exaggerate.
It was a lot.
But he does talk about it here.
And he talks about it, I think, in a really redeeming way
that should make you reconsider your aversion to the word
"esthetic."
Um, but he says that "the esthetic is no intruder
in inexperience from without."
I'm reading that quote in context
and I still don't understand what it means.
What, what does that mean?
Well, he says that "the word 'esthetic' refers,"
as he's already noted, "to experience as appreciative,
perceiving and enjoying.
It denotes the consumer's rather than the producer's
standpoint."
So this goes back to that idea of, like, not really existing
until it's out in the world.
That the esthetic is sort of, as opposed
to like the artistic-- for him, artistic is about production
and the esthetic is about appreciating,
or taking in the art.
So the esthetic is about me and, uh,
like, what's pleasing, or interesting, or valuable to me
as, uh, a consumer of art?
That's exactly right.
And he says also that receptivity is not passivity.
Even a book is not "lean back entertainment,"
as we like to call it.
Like, it involves your participation
even if you're not, like, physically moving.
But you're thinking, you're interpreting,
you're sort of filtering it through your own experience.
And so art requires people to be receptive,
and that is not the same as being passive.
That's good.
I like-- you're right, I like that.
But then there's also other stuff
in the book about how, like, art is the greatest
thing that man-- always man, never woman-- can do,
and like it's the end goal of manhood itself.
And I, I just don't know that I, I buy that.
Like, there's the quote "art is the living
and the concrete proof that man is capable
of restoring consciously, and thus
on the plane of meaning, the union of sense, need, impulse
and action characteristic of the live creature."
It's a little much for me.
Yeah, it's, it's seductive, and I,
I want to believe it but I just don't.
It's like, it's too perfect.
He goes on to say that "the moral function of art
itself is to remove prejudice, do away
with the scales that keep the eye from seeing,
tear away the veils due to want and custom,
perfect the power to perceive."
I mean, that's very beautiful.
It is.
And I hope that art can do that.
Yeah.
Art when it's amazing I think does do that.
I mean, I want art to do that.
I want art to sort of make us all realize that we are human
and we do have things in common, but we also don't in a lot
of ways.
Right.
I also want art to be--
Our experiences are so varied that it, it's
hard to be that optimistic.
Yeah, I want art to reflect the diversity of experience
and the ways in which we are different
as well as the ways in which we're the same.
Yeah.
And I think a powerful part of this theory
is that he says that art, art is important
and it's a part of our life.
It shapes us and that it's not removed,
it's not a separate thing, but it's just integrated.
Yeah.
I think too often we see art as, like, over here and math
as over here.
Yeah.
And what he's saying is that art
is part of being human, an important part, and also,
uh, a part that you can't get rid of, even if you want to.
Oh boy, was reading this book an experience.
Yeah, uh, one that I don't particularly want to repeat.
Speaking of which, Sarah, I, I really
found the ideas in this interesting,
but it was presented to me in a totally inaccessible way which
made me think that maybe if you could make, uh,
videos for me about this kind of stuff it would be helpful.
Like for instance, why I should, uh,
like or be interested in a particular artist's work--
like, say, Andy Warhol.
I could do that.
Yeah.
I think that would be great.
OK.
Let's try that next time. (WHISPERING)
I'll never read this again.
On the off-chance that you did read this book,
let us know what you thought about it.
You are my hero.
And even if you didn't, let us know what
you think of Dewey's ideas.
Thanks for watching.