Ben
At the weekend, 14 days of demonstrations by Extinction Rebellion
The climate group, during which nearly 500 people were arrested, all came to an end
Now the group says that life on Earth is in crisis and facing a mass extinction
We'll show you some pictures here, protestors outside, very colourful, outside the London Stock Exchange
And we are joined now by Gale Bradbrook from the group
Gale, Extinction Rebellion have said that the protests have been incredibly successful
How are you measuring that success?
Well we had two goals with this Rebellion
One was to ask for an immediate demand which was no new investments in fossil fuels
and we took that demand to the heart of the City of London
because people are fond of saying that the UK has very low emissions
but actually 15% of emissions are funded from the UK
We didn't actually expect that demand to be met because we are not being led out of this crisis
we are being led over a cliff
The Paris Climate Agreement has already failed
We are going to be getting 1.5 degrees of warming and more which is catastrophic for millions of people
The second goal therefore was to say why is it, that when we are in a time of existential threat
Why is it that we are not being led on this issue?
Because we have a political economy that is unable to lead us in such a crisis
Alright, there is an indication that the public don't necessarily have a positive view of you, the group
not you personally
Is there a danger that people start to tune out of the sorts of things that you are talking about
because of the tactics and the strategy that you adopt
There's no evidence in that from social movement theory
It's often the case that the people that bring the message are not liked but as we say don't shoot the messenger
The point is that 85% of the British public now think that we are in an emergency
and that it's going to affect everyone and they are quite right
and what we're talking about, you know what you were discussing on this program earlier
about not having food on the shelves
We're looking at multi breadbasket failures in the coming years according to academics
people ain't seen nothing yet in terms of food shortages
and the trajectory that we are on now which is towards 4 degrees of warming signals the collapse of civilisation
So don't shoot the messenger
Alright, sorry to interrupt, let me open it up, alright Anita
From a communications point of view, my point about perhaps the people don't actually support Extinction Rebellion as a group
because of their tactics and the disruption but as Gale said
they don't need to be liked they just need to get the agenda out there which they're doing
Yes well I saw some YouGov polling suggesting that they were on -30% in terms of popularity with the public
and I think that even politicians would blanch at that kind of number
so I think there are two different things here
I don't think there are many people resistant to the idea of there needing to do more to tackle climate change
and I certainly think our political leaders, and actually as well as businesses
are seriously engaged in the kind of work that needs to be undertaken to tackle that
I don't think that either, Extinction Rebellion is either drawing attention to some of the nuances of their argument
Gale, that is certainly the first time I have heard of any of those two prospectus'
and I've seen Extinction Rebellion everywhere
So I think there is a distinction that needs to be made between the broad issue
and whether or not these tactics are doing anything but losing popularity for this organisation
Right, Sarah. Your view, as you say they don't need to win votes, the strategy works Gale says
Well it's interesting isn't it?
I spent years before I was an MP working in lots of different organisations
where we were trying to change minds and trying to effect change
and there were different ways to do it, protest isn't by any means the only way to do it
You have to start where people are and argue your case from their point of view as well as make the noise
but both of those things are important
Do you support the sort of protests being done by Extinction Rebellion?
Peaceful protest, Extinction Rebellion's cause, absolutely
What I would say, as Shadow Policing Minister, having talked to police on the ground
they're absolutely knackered, there are lots of resources that they have had to put in place
that's not to say that we shouldn't have peaceful protest
but that is to say that they need a bit of support from this Government
They don't need a pay freeze and they need more support in terms of numbers
So you know, there are lots of issues at play here
but the key argument about the need to push on this Government, the need to do more to impact on climate change
to put those values and those targets into action is absolutely the right one
Yeh because Andrew, there are robust targets from the Government
but not enough of a narrative for how people are going to have to change their own personal behaviour in order to meet those targets
you haven't been honest about that
I think we have been honest about that and I think we'll see more about it in the coming months
but we shouldn't forget right now that we are talking about Extinction Rebellion and thier protests
This was the first country in Europe to legislate for net-zero
We have cut our carbon emissions faster than any other country in the G7
We are hosting COP26 and we are ambitious about the agreement that we can get
because ultimately this fight, and we all agree that we need to cut our emissions
and do more to fight the climate crisis
this will only be achieved by agreement at a global level
and I have to say Extinction Rebellion, I think they do damage to the cause
Everybody on this panel agrees, we need to do more
but going about their business, stopping people going about their daily business is no way to make the case
that we need to take action on climate change
So we blocked one intersection in London per day, something like that
There is 11,000 intersections in London
and what's happening is what happens to social movements, right this is what happened with the Suffragettes, propaganda
So we've had a three-pronged approach really
You've had the police coming down super heavy on us including violent use of batons, punching peaceful protestors
it seemed that the police's main mission was to stop us getting our message out there
You've got a coordinated attack across the right-wing press to discredit us
and you've got the Government trying to pass a Police, Crime and Sentencing Bill to squash this kind of protest
Like why is there so much focus on Extinction Rebellion and so little focus on the agenda
and action that is actually taken because if you look at all these targets that the Government has actually set
According to their own Committee on Climate Change, they just keep failing on them
According to the Public Accounts Committee they have no plan
They haven't seen the delivery plan
There is no plan folks, we're being led over a cliff
We're already getting 1.5 degrees of warming
and people are going to starve in the future as a result of that
-I'm going to have to stop you because we are getting to the end of the program -Thank you
But thank you very much for coming on, Alistair I just want to get a response from you
on the political side, in terms of the strategy and tactics of Extinction Rebellion
The issue is obviously up the political agenda
but in the US they worked very hard to attach themselves, environmentalists to the Democrats
and to some extent it has worked with Joe Biden
Would that be better to try and attach themselves, XR, to a political party here?
No from their perspective, I don't think it would
You know I agree with Gale, I find it really alarming that the Government is bringing forward this legislation
aimed at curbing peaceful protest
Look they may be unpopular although I've got to say, Gavin Williamson would give his right arm for -30
He's way worse than that and he's still in charge of schools
So reshuffles happening perhaps later in the week
But I do think they have played a role in getting the issue up the agenda
and Gale is right, this really is an emergency with the planet
and I suspect that the protest movement, for all their unpopularity
can actually pat themselves on the back, to some extent, for having made that happen
Right Andrew?
No no, I disagree I think they are doing great damage to their cause
This Government is taking some of the most stringent action of any government in the world
in terms of combatting the climate emergency and will continue to do so
We hope we'll get a good agreement at COP26 and take the rest of the world with us
Coming up in a couple of months, thank you to all of you for being on the first show back
in the first term back for the autumn
That's all we have time for though, I'll be back tomorrow at 12:15, from all of us here bye bye