[THEME MUSIC]
In last week's episode, we talked
about the relationship between sleep
and the global digital economy.
Let's see what Jay had to say.
OK.
So first things first, lots of people
write in comments saying that they
are watching "Idea Channel" videos instead of sleeping.
Guys, don't worry about it.
The videos are going to be there in the morning
when you wake up.
You've got to get some sleep.
It's very important.
I'm worried about you.
You've got to take care of yourself.
It's very important to me that you're getting--
that you're leading as healthy a lifestyle as you possibly can.
Don't make these kind of sacrifices on my behalf.
I appreciate it.
But it's unnecessary.
Relatedly, there were some people
who were concerned for my well-being.
And I very much appreciate that.
I will say I slept in the night before we
pulled the all-nighter.
And after getting rid of all of the gear
that we needed to shoot the episode,
I went and slept for quite a while.
So I did not end up having to pull an all-nighter
and then go directly to work the next day.
I am in a very advantageous position,
which is that I just managed to shift my work day
to a different part of the day.
But thank you for your concern.
Very soon after the episode was shot, got well rested.
Does that ruin some of the magic?
It's OK.
Behind The Scenes, BTS content here
in the comment response video.
And speaking of content, there were some people who
were upset that in the episode I did not call out the word
"content."
If you listen really, really closely in the score
There's a high note that plays when I say the word "content."
That's a very subtle nod to the fact that I'm saying "content."
But just to sort of provide for fulfillment, yaargh, "content."
There.
We did it.
Aleko Giatrakis writes a really interesting comment
connecting the prevalence of sleeplessness
to the rise of the creative economies
or the laptop economy, sort of talking about how
people who are knowledge workers or creative workers
might be expected to put in longer hours
simply because of the nature of their work,
that it is possible to see how there's
a widespread understanding that if you're doing physical labor,
you're going to get tired, it's important for you to get sleep
so that in doing that physical labor
you're not endangering yourself.
But the creative economy and knowledge workers,
it's a much different story, in that, it's like, oh,
you just have to think, like just work more and more.
All you have to do is write.
It's much easier to do.
And I think that, yeah, this is both an unfair position to have
and one that I can see--
I can see why it might exist.
Caitlin Bumbalough also wrote sort of something
in a similar vein that was like, there
are professions where sleep is seen as sort of a luxury.
And this reminded me of a--
I think it was a "New York Times" piece that I'll find
and I'll put a link to in the doobly-do about how sleep
is like a luxury item at this point,
that if you are able to brag about how much sleep you're
getting, it's like saying you have a Louis Vuitton bag
or something, which also not cool,
but also, yeah, makes the bad kind of sense.
Toby Fox talks about how people who are
working in creative fields--
they mention illustrators, painters, and draftsmen--
there's a sort of amount of time that it
takes to get into the rhythm of doing the kind of work
that you do, and that the amount of time that takes sort of
makes it necessary that one works through the night,
that it's hard to get into this rhythm during the day.
And we actually used to talk about this a lot
when I was making theater and making performance
when I first moved to New York and started
working in the arts.
And the thing I heard it referred to a couple times
was compiling, that it's like during the day,
you have to load all of these things into your brain.
You have to load all of these experiences and thoughts.
And that takes a certain amount of time.
And then you have to compile them.
You have to spend time just stewing on them I guess,
working through the details, so that you can actually sit down
and start getting to work.
And I think there's a certain amount of truth in this.
But there's also a certain amount of truth in this idea
that sometimes you've just got to get to work.
And I think as I've grown older, I
have started realizing the utility in waking
up early to do this kind of work,
as opposed to staying up late.
And I wonder if that's just being an old fool now,
being an old cranky guy, or if there's actually something
neurological that happens.
Jes May mentions a really huge and I think damaging part
of the 24/7 economy as it relates to shift workers that
we didn't really have time to get into, which is
the "clo/open," so that if you work at like a fast food chain
or at a retail establishment-- like I used to have to do them
at Blockbuster back in the day--
when you have to close the shop, do all of the paperwork that's
involved with closing for the day, and then open the shop,
do all the paperwork that's involved
in opening for the day, you have such a small amount
of time between when you are finally able to leave
and when you are required to arrive
that getting a good night's sleep, especially if you count
the amount of time it takes to sort of wind down,
is nearly impossible.
And I would say that, yeah, this is a particularly pernicious
assault on sleep for shift workers,
so much so that actually recently--
and it might have passed.
I'll have to check in on this.
I'm not sure.
They were trying to make them illegal in New York
City, that someone who is closing
is not legally required to then open the next day.
Or if they are, there has to be a minimum amount of time
between when they leave and when they show up,
otherwise you're breaking labor laws, which
I think is how it should be.
A bunch of people in the comments
mentioned polyphasic sleep schedules,
which is where you do something like sleep for 30 minutes
every 4 hours.
So instead of getting one giant chunk of sleep every day,
you spread that sleep out over the course of multiple hours.
And it seems like Dale Galiniak was the one who
maybe had the most success.
Most people who I saw write comments were like, I tried it
and I just couldn't do it.
It's way too difficult.
And Dale seems to hit on the thing
that I had trouble with when I was sleeping this way--
but I wasn't sleeping this way because I
wanted to try polyphasic sleep, it was just
sort of circumstance, life, work, or whatever.
I ended up sleeping in small chunks for an extended
period of time--
is that, man, the world just gets really confusing,
that things that require intense mental activity
just become really difficult in a way that's very
hard to put your finger on.
But I'm curious whether or not there's
anybody who's tried this and not managed to just
get really confused and kind of just brain-dead,
because I can't imagine doing it.
I just can't imagine it working out.
Neala Enrswa writes a really interesting comment
about sleep schedule as it relates
to being an Amazon employee.
And I just wanted to point this out,
because it's super-interesting and worth reading.
Thank you for sharing your experiences.
Links to this one and all the others in the doobly-do.
Jens Fogh wonders whether or not the implementation
of automation would bring split sleep back,
this practice of going to bed, waking up a little bit,
and going back to bed.
And if I understand your question correctly,
Jens, what you're asking is if automation
in industrialized situations, industrialized economies,
would then free people up to return to a more natural sleep
cycle, because they no longer have to stay awake manning
the machinery, so to speak.
And I mean, I don't know.
I'm not really sure.
It seems controversial to say that the split sleep
thing is natural, that it's not cultural or learned in a way.
And there are all of these studies that
have conflicting reports about whether currently
existing civilizations or societies without technology
sleep more or less than we do, sleep in greater segments
than we do.
Lots of people argue about this stuff.
What I will say is this.
I think there's one view of automation that
says it's going to be great for people's sleep,
because with all of the robots taking care of all of the jobs,
people are free to do other work that doesn't need to happen
24/7, and so we will return to a sort of more normal 9:00
to 5:00 sleep schedule, or normal 9:00 to 5:00 work
schedule, and then 8 to 10 hour sleeping all the time.
Great.
Back to how it used to be.
I think a counterargument to that
is if automation takes jobs away from laborers
who need to make money to support their families,
to live in the world, then there is a chance
that they will actually end up sleeping even less,
because they have to find even more jobs.
They have to find additional work
so that they can make up the money that they have now
lost to a robot.
And we sort of talked about this a little bit in the Q&A. One
of the things that I really wanted to talk about
on "Idea Channel" but we just never got around to is
whether or not before the rise of automation
we need to make sure there is put in place
a universal basic income.
And I think this is a very related thing.
Srpad makes a really interesting connection
between the human need for sleep and the concept of ownership,
that you could maybe argue that the idea of needing
to have something that is one's own
comes from needing to have a shelter that they could
reasonably restrict other people from entering while they
are at their most vulnerable, meaning
while they are sleeping.
I have never seen this argument before.
And I find it very interesting.
Srpad, is this some of your original thought?
I would find your ideas intriguing
and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter,
is what I'm trying to say.
Where many of us might think of not
having to sleep as something of a superpower,
Ahsatan1016 goes the other direction
and says that life would actually
probably just be terrible.
Since there would be no biological excuse
to stop sitting at the computer, party
all night, to stop obsessing over something
that's causing a bad mood, no breaks in your experience,
no way to just turn off, that you would actually maybe
have to choose to do those things instead
of in some sense being forced to do them
if your circadian rhythm operates the way that it
is expected to.
And I think--
I mean, for all of the positive things
I can think about when considering what life would be
like if I didn't ever have to sleep,
I don't think any of them are so great that I would risk
the very likely situation where I do something
very stupid or very unhealthy because I didn't
have to go to bed.
It's a good point.
[THEME MUSIC]