﻿Mr SPEAKER: Question No 12, Rino Tirikatene.
RINO TIRIKATENE (Labour—Te Tai Tonga) to the Minister for Primary Industries:
Was he aware in 2013 of the pervasive illegal dumping
of fish from inshore trawlers, as documented in the MPI reports
on Operation Achilles and Operation Hippocamp?
Hon NATHAN GUY (Minister for Primary Industries):
As I do not receive the Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI)
criminal investigations, I was not made aware of those specific cases.
However, it is well known that a small degree of illegal dumping
in our fisheries has always occurred. The ministry
was disappointed that it was not able to take a prosecution
in these particular circumstances,
and there is now a Queen’s Counsel (QC) reviewing this decision.
However, MPI takes over 300 prosecutions per year
and we have doubled the number of observers on vessels.
Yesterday I also announced that we will accelerate the roll-out
of cameras and electronic monitoring on all fishing vessels.
This will provide greater transparency and improve
public confidence that our fisheries are being well managed.
Rino Tirikatene: When did he first become aware that MPI investigators
had uncovered fishing vessels openly discarding substantial quantities
of prime inshore quota fish?
Hon NATHAN GUY: If the member had opened his taringa to the answer
of the primary question—
Mr SPEAKER: Order! That answer just will not help the order of the House.
Can the question just be answered please?
Hon NATHAN GUY: If the member had listened to the primary answer
he would have known that, in fact, politicians do not get involved
in criminal investigations. If there are any policy changes
that need to be made as a result of criminal investigations
then they are fed through to me, and, as the member should be aware,
I have an operational review under way.
Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.
That was a relatively straight question from my colleague
Rino Tirikatene about when he became aware.
It was not about the particular criminal investigation;
it was when he became aware of the practice.
Mr SPEAKER: The best way forward is to ask Rino Tirikatene
to re-ask the question.
Rino Tirikatene: When did he first become aware
that MPI investigators had uncovered fishing vessels
openly discarding substantial quantities of prime inshore quota fish?
Hon NATHAN GUY: As I alluded to in the primary answer,
MPI has ongoing investigations happening all the time.
I also said in my primary answer that MPI has 300 investigations.
I also said that discarding and dumping has been a concern
for a long period of time. As a result, the member should
be aware that we have rolled out 100% camera coverage
in Snapper 1, and yesterday I announced we are going to do more.
Rino Tirikatene: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.
My question asked when the Minister was aware—
Mr SPEAKER: I know.
I agree that the question has now been asked twice.
It has been answered twice.
I am none the wiser as to when the Minister was aware.
The way forward is that I will allow the member
an additional supplementary question.
[MEMBERS INTERJECT]
Rino Tirikatene: When did he first become aware that
MPI investigators had uncovered fishing vessels openly discarding
substantial quantities of prime inshore quota fish?
Dr Megan Woods: When?
Mr SPEAKER: Order! I do not need the assistance of Dr Megan Woods.
The answer from Nathan Guy.
Hon NATHAN GUY: I became aware of the nature of these reports
last week when they entered the public domain.
Following on, as I have just answered in the last two questions,
if there are any policy changes that need to be made as a result of this,
then they can be fed into the operational review.
Since these reports in 2012-13, we have made sure that the 100% roll-out
of camera coverage in Snapper 1 means that we can use that footage
in a compliance nature if we need to.
Rino Tirikatene: Has the Ministry for Primary Industries
been undertaking a 5-year work programme since 2008 called
Better Information Better Value to address fish dumping; if so,
why did the Government only launch an investigation
into fish dumping last Thursday, almost 3 years
after the programme was ended?
Hon NATHAN GUY: I refute those allegations.
That member has a cheek coming into the House because he is actually—
[Interruption]. Mr Speaker?
Mr SPEAKER: Order! Does the member wish to hear the answer,
because he needs some assistance from his colleagues—
Rino Tirikatene: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.
The Minister is being very slippery.
Mr SPEAKER: No, no. And that is not a point of order.
Now, does the Minster wish to complete his answer?
Hon NATHAN GUY: By the line of questioning from that—[Interruption]
Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is little point in going on.
The left-hand side is to be quiet so that we can hear the answer;
I am not getting any cooperation.
Are there any further supplementary questions?
Rino Tirikatene: What happened between Wednesday last week
when the Ministry for Primary Industries denied that there was
fishing quota misreporting, and Thursday, when it launched
an independent inquiry?
Hon NATHAN GUY: As a result of those two criminal
investigation reports becoming publicly available,
it was then an opportune time for MPI to get a QC involved—
as a result of it not being able to get a prosecution
because of the scientific nature in which these cameras were used.
I think it is very appropriate that a QC is now reviewing this.
I also think that there is an opportunity,
as a result of the operational review that I kicked off last year,
to ensure that any policy changes that may come about from this
can be fed into that, because ultimately this is about
the public confidence in our fishing system, and I want
to ensure that we are doing absolutely everything possible
to ensure that that is happening.
Rino Tirikatene: Does he agree that just monitoring the problem
will not make it go away; if so, what is he doing to address
the underlying causes of fish dumping?
Mr SPEAKER: The Hon Nathan Guy— either of those two questions.
Hon NATHAN GUY: If the member had listened to the answers
that I have given this afternoon, he would have realised the programme
of work that we have got under way. I cannot believe that the member’s
line of questioning this afternoon is implying that the hundreds of people
who are out there collecting fish— mum and dad businesses—are all crooks.
The member has not even acknowledged that we have made a law change
with foreign charter vessels.
This Government is doing a huge amount and will continue to do more.
Mr SPEAKER: That concludes Questions for Oral Answer.
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