Congressman Kinzinger, it's good to have you with us.
What do you make of this Mishegas?
Look at the mess.
I think my biggest worry
just for the country is not really the ballot after ballot.
And that's just democracy.
That's a process.
It's everybody's learning kind of house rules now.
It is. What is Kevin willing to give up?
Because I think what we're seeing in some of these,
we don't even know what a lot of these rule changes are.
But for instance, one person to vacate the chair
it's going to create chaos, as we've been talking about.
Here's the thing that I think we have to take.
When you talk about the five or six that are kind of never Kevins,
what's their motivation so of the 21 that are voting against
Kevin, a significant number of those like they really believe.
I would disagree with that,
but they believe this is a way to get to whatever their end goal is.
There are a number of people, particularly these five
or six, that enjoy being in this position.
They relish
being the ones standing up, being the ones kind of throwing a wrench in this.
And that's what I think the concern is, is if they end up being only five, that's
probably for them even a better situation because they get more attention.
Look at like Matt Gates know, nominating Donald Trump.
And I think I know some of those folks and I can tell you
they enjoy being the five of the six people
that are going to deny Kevin a speakership.
But it doesn't even have to be because it's Kevin.
It's because they can be the ones to do it.
And the idea of that, you might get some of them to at least vote present
So this can finally resolve itself
I think it's possible if you get to like ballot 50 or 70.
But I think by then I think enough and this is kind of what we have to now
start watching, which you guys have been discussing is how many folks and the say
in the middle generically and your average kind of Republican member of Congress
is going to be worried about what's been given up.
They're going to realize that at this point you're really picking
a person over the health of the party and by extension, the health of the country.
And you start floating alternative names once alternative names
start getting floated by, we'll call them the regular members of Congress,
for lack of a better term.
I think Kevin's done at that point.
Then he just has it's the problem
with some of these folks that have pledged only Kevin, I understand the purpose.
It's like, hey, we're as committed as you guys are,
but you have to have an out because this could grind on forever.
And I don't think Kevin can win in the long run.
So so I was going to say, you know, Congressman, well, that assumes that.
So this is the 20 right left to say they've been offered something.
The toothpaste is out of the tube in this right So how do you put it back in?
Yeah, right.
So how do you put it back in now and say, you know,
Congressman, your point is like we're going to get somebody else.
But but the 20 if you're Chip Roy, these folks
you're going to say, well, wait, we want our chips.
And we just we just we just negotiated this.
The new person is going to come in and say, that was the old guy, not with me.
So you know, because I know look, I think you're I think you're completely right.
I don't know how let's say let's just use Scalise as an example.
Let's say he comes forward and says, now I want the motion to vacate the chair
not to be one person they're not going to go for that.
And that's why I think it's still not likely.
So I don't want to get people kind of moving around on this.
But there is still a possibility, especially as this drags on,
that you end up coming to this idea
of a consensus candidate, an acceptable Republican, the Democrats.
The big question, can you get somebody like AOC to vote for a Republican?
That's not for me to answer. I think it'd be tough for him.
And then enough Republicans that say, like we've seen in some of these statehouses,
let's have a kind of a coalition government.
I actually think in the long run,
that would be good for healing the institution of the House.
But how I mean, David Axelrod, how likely is something like that?
Because the Republicans who would vote
with Democrats would could pay a big political price for it.
Yeah, Adam, I mean, you'd you would be someone to answer this question.
I mean, my feeling is that in this political environment,
that is a tough decision for Republicans
to make in the Republican who takes the the job to make.
I mean, I I'm with you.
I think that would be good for the country.
It would be good for the institution.
It would be a way of breaking the fever that you've fought to break.
But the
question is, does the politics allow for it
or do you open up the door to, you know,
civil war in the primaries again?
Well, look, I think if you look historically,
the politics doesn't allow for it.
But we're in a completely unprecedented moment, at least in our memories,
where now I mean, as you have five people keeping Kevin McCarthy ultimately
from the speakership, you could have five that create a coalition government.
Put yourself in the mindset of some of these members of Congress.
Let's say they come from a Biden district.
Let's say they've made a mental decision that this is their last term
and now they have an opportunity to kind of stand up.
Look, it's not going to be a Democratic speaker.
And I think that has to be clear.
But an acceptable Republican that creates a level playing field
and that kind of a speaker could actually create an institution
that actually works.
So if you put yourself in the mind, you only need five or six people
to say it's a historic opportunity to do something to heal this institution.
I may not be running again.
And even if I am, I think maybe in two years the history will judge it.
Well, Congressman Kinzinger, how how many of those people are there?
I mean, they sound like unicorns.
How many are they actually do they exist?
Yeah, they exist.
I mean, you've heard Don Bacon, for instance, kind of float this idea.
Right.
Don Bacon is a great guy.
Don Bacon, you know, represents his district well.
He obviously is a military guy.
There are people with his kind of,
you know, resume sort of there in the in the House of Representatives
that I don't think we're there yet.
I don't think it's going to happen tomorrow.
But as this thing drags on, particularly as they get concerned with
these institutional things and again, Americans have to be thinking
what are we giving up for our country
so that one single man can become speaker of the House?
And and I think
as that gets into those people's minds, that might trigger something.
My sense when Congressman Bacon floated that was it was in part to put pressure
on this recalcitrant group to understand that there was a time limit.
And if they if they pushed down this road, that they might end up with a situation
like that.
But executing it, it just seems difficult to me.
You're saying five Republicans would join the Democrats to elect a speaker.
Is that you're
I think there's any number of ways this could go down.
I think let's say you take Fred Upton, name has been floated.
He's a great guy. I'll just use him.
I don't know if he's actually interested in doing it.
But Fred Upton, let's say his name is put up.
You can get every Democratic vote for him.
And his agreement with the Democrats is I'm just going
to create a level playing field and then you get five Republicans.
It's possible that that's how it could get done.
Again, I think we have to go through
a number of these iterations until people realize it's doing real damage.
But I wouldn't rule it out.
And I think it's a small percentage chance.
But I do think, you know,
when we were talking about this possibility a month ago,
it's certainly more possible now than it was a month ago.
Scott, Adam and Scott Jennings, I have a question about your
your views on the tolerance of these members of Congress.
You know, they've gone through a couple of days now.
They've adjourned until tomorrow.
You know, who's to say anything productive is going to happen tomorrow?
Then you go through the weekend and then we're into next week.
At what point do you think fatigue begins to alter the judgment
of some of these folks?
I mean, it's easy to be, you know,
intransigent today or it's easy to say I'm I'm all in on some outcome today.
But by Tuesday or Wednesday of next week, I was curious about your views of
of their of their stamina for this.
Well, I fit for the average member of Congress.
They're already there. They're ready for this to be done.
You know, you had family here. It's the weekend.
There's a lot of pressure there.
You know, none of them will tell you on the air.
They're not going to come out and say, we're just tired.
We need to go home, because obviously you have to put up this.
We're here to fight front.
The question is, then who's going to give first and if you
look at the five or six.
From what I know of them, I've worked with them.
They enjoy being in this moment.
They enjoy being in this position.
And so fatigue is certainly heading now and it's going to get stronger.