Open and honest conversations are vital to our understanding of equality and diversity,
and that's what we are committed to here at Liverpool.
To mark Black History Month, I'm meeting Tony,
a Liverpool fan whose connection with the club has been a difficult one
after his experiences at the match as a young fan.
I was born in Liverpool 8, Toxteth of course.
As a youngster, I was very sporty, loved playing football.
And of course you're talking about your formative years, probably mid to late-'70s,
when Liverpool were kings of Europe, and Liverpool played a big part in your life,
so how important was Liverpool Football Club to you?
Because there may have been many black supporters
but we didn't get many black supporters coming to the game.
Exactly.
My family supported Liverpool Football Club,
and I had a friend in the same street who just happened to be white,
he was a big Liverpool fan, and one day he just said to me:
"Do you fancy coming to watch a football match?"
What age were you?
I think I was 12. So we got on the bus, the No. 27, on Lodge Lane,
and came up to Anfield.
I only remember that Kenny Dalglish was playing, and that was a big draw for me,
because Kenny had just recently signed for the club.
And the rest of it is a blur because of what happened to me subsequently
when I was in the Boys' Pen.
I had a snorkel coat, because at the time snorkel coats were the trend,
and I remember having this coat
because it ended up covered in spit and various other things
that happened when I was standing there.
So I never forget that particular coat that I had on.
I think what had the most impact on me was the fact that,
the fans, they were clapping in unison, like this and like that,
and chanting n*****, n*****.
Were any black players playing for either team?
No, there was no black players there, John.
So they were just chanting at you, basically?
No, I was the only person in there.
And how did that make you feel at the time?
Well, I can feel it now.
I was probably a scared boy.
In that moment, you realise you're not being valued as a person,
you're not being viewed as a human even. You don't matter.
And I refused to come back to the club.
Did you see any other black faces in the Boys' Pen?
I was the only black face.
I played for Watford for six years,
and of course there is not just a larger black population,
but a much larger group of black fans who went to the football matches in the '70s.
They would have endured what you endured,
but because there were a lot of them together,
they probably dealt with it differently.
And I found it strange when I first came to Liverpool in 1987
that you didn't see many black people coming to the game.
When I went to Arsenal, to Chelsea, racism was there, don't get me wrong,
but you had a lot of black faces going to these football grounds,
and I think a lot of black footballers would have been lost to the game
because they either wouldn't have been given an opportunity, or they felt
- like you felt - that they wouldn't have been able to put up with whatever came their way.
Getting back to that particular experience in the Boy's Pen,
that might have been the moment when I decided to fight back.
I decided I'm going to address this, face up to this,
try to challenge this in whatever way I can.
Throughout my life, that's what I've done.
Interestingly enough, I did some work for Liverpool FC,
Rishi Jain invited The Anthony Walker Foundation to come in and do some work.
And as I was doing some consultancy work for them, I came in and did the session.
And I did share my story with Rishi, and it obviously had an impact on him.
There's an inititative that you're probably aware of, the Red Together Initiative,
and Rishi invited a couple of us from The Anthony Walker Foundation
to come to the game.
When the invite was extended to me, it was a sharp intake of breath,
because it was like, "I've not been to this club since I was a child."
And I have to say that it felt different.
Just looking out at the ground, the look of the team is different,
the players are a lot more diverse now, from all corners of the globe.
There was even messages over the Tannoy
about being conscious of discriminatory behaviours, chanting and stuff.
So although I didn't hear any racist chanting or anything of that nature,
my hope was that, if it had happened,
someone who wasn't black would have challenged it.
To see that it's not just seen as black issue - we're all in this together.
Although I still think there's a long way to go, as you suggested,
racism is a societal issue and this is a microcosm of what happens...
Absolutely, you can choose not to come back to Liverpool for 40, 50 years -
you can't choose not to come out your front door.
And that is why I say it's difficult for football to really do much about it -
what it can do is highlight the problem,
and then once they highlight it
we can go off to then talk about tangible differences we can make.
I'm a firm believer in organisations that lead by example.
So examples of good practice, people that are pushing,
trying to make things change.
And one of the things that I think can change
is that we see more people that look like me and you,
that they can identify with.
It was like us in the black community, in L8,
when we saw Howard Gayle playing for Liverpool.
He was one of us, so we could identify with that,
and then we could believe that we could be that.
We could believe that we could achieve that.
If I see someone who looks like me as a teacher, that inspires me.
If I see someone standing up, speaking confidently,
who looks like me, that inspires me.
And hopefully there will be people who look at me and think,
"OK, if he can do what he's done, then I can do better."
Well, Tony, it's been wonderful to meet you.
I know you had an experience and it took you a long while to come back,
and I'm glad that when you came back - finally - you had a different experience,
and there is hope for the future, and hopefully you will come more often.
It's a different experience, it was definitely a more positive experience,
and it's been a pleasure meeting you, John.
It's good to chat about these things, because it comes back to that point, doesn't it,
that we have to have this dialogue and communication
to understand each other more and make a contribution to making things better.
I think you've definitely played an important role in doing that
and I hope in the things that I do I can continue to do that.
So, thanks for the opportunity.