Donald Trump's legal battles
stretch up
and down the East Coast in the D.C.
election interference case.
The former
president says
he believes that an indictment
could happen any day now.
Obviously, he has been a very person
to announce
many of the indictments
and target letters that he has received.
Meanwhile, in Miami,
the former president's new codefendant
in the Mar-A-Lago document
case had his first appearance
in court today.
And in Georgia, Fulton County
is now bracing
for potential Trump charges
there, not just for him,
but also potentially
for many of his Republican allies.
As the district attorney
says that her investigation,
which has been going on
for two
and a half years
now, is complete and quote,
We are ready to go.
A lot to sort through tonight,
obviously, on the legal front.
So I am joined by a pair of former U.S.
attorneys, David Kelley and Harry Litman.
Thank you both for being here.
Harry,
Trump says this indictment
is coming any day now.
Obviously, it's Trump.
We don't know
when the actual indictment will come,
but he has forecasted
these a lot in the past.
If and when that comes down,
what are you
going to be looking for in the charges
I want to see what this two 41
it was kind of the surprise statute,
the civil rights statute.
What's the theory there?
Because they're not doing
an insurrection charge, it looks like.
So it
may have to do with the actual conduct
on January six.
I really want to see what that's about.
Is your expectation
that it won't be a sealed indictment
like there was with the documents case?
We had to wait for them to unseal it.
So it was kind of the Trump
legal team out there
talking about what the charges were
and what it looked like.
And then we saw the indictment
for itself.
That's right.
It could be
because the only real reason to do it,
you would
sometimes do it
if you think the defendant's
going to abscond won't happen here.
The reason to do
it is to sort of
get the security in line
and have everything good to go.
That'll be a judgment call
that Jack Smith will make,
maybe with the chief judge of the.
Yeah, and that's the 2020
election interference investigation.
We'll see in the documents
case, which, of course,
we saw became a superseding indictment
last week as a third
codefendant was added.
He was in court today in Miami.
Carlos delivering
his arraignment
now is going to be scheduled
for August 10th.
He did not have a Florida based attorney.
We saw the same thing happen
with Walt Norton.
He delayed
and getting his Florida based attorney.
Do you think this is
clearly a delay tactic from the Trump
legal team?
I don't think it is.
I mean, look,
I practiced a lot
in southern Israel, Florida,
and they're very strict on the proactive
meaning you have to have a
you know,
somebody local counsel
stand up for outside counsel.
So I don't
I don't really
credit it to be a real delay tactic.
And I don't think it's going
to really delay much of anything.
And remember,
Trump
also needs to be arraigned
once again on the superseding indictment.
So my guess will be that
they'll do it all in one package.
Okay.
So August 10th is
what we're looking for there.
The other thing
we learned from that
superseding indictment
is that Trump "Employee 4"
which for those of us
who've been covering this
closely, it's useful to various
because the I.T.
employees in charge
of essentially all of that
and he was the one that Carlos de la Vera
allegedly went to
and asked
about deleting a server for the boss
Is it clear to
you, given he has gotten a target letter,
as we are told,
part of
these new charges is based on
what he told investigators.
Do you believe he's
cooperating with them?
Yes.
Or he's just testifying
as he's supposed to.
But it's such a good point that you make
that people have largely missed.
He gets the target letter
and now he does
what people should be doing,
what they Oliviera should have done.
Now they should have done.
He gets a new lawyer
the guy had before, Stan Woodward.
It's like represents a dozen witnesses,
including whatnot. Right.
And that that new lawyer says,
excuse me,
you've got a way to have no jeopardy,
a way to have jeopardy.
Wanted to actually tell the truth.
He does
he goes forward
and he is he a cooperator?
He's out of heat, out of trouble.
That's all we know. He won't be charged.
And he's someone who's just got up
and told the truth
like citizens are supposed to.
What do you read into
how prosecutors are asking?
We're told based on sources
asking about
who's paying for their attorneys
and who's paying for their legal fees
I mean, we know
obviously what not US attorney
Stan Woodward is being paid.
So is John Irving,
who was who is Carlos's attorney.
What do you make? It's a great question.
I mean, look, it's an obstruction case.
And part of the obstruction cases
who's, you know, who the witnesses are
and how what they're hearing
from the witnesses.
And part of
that is
who's representing these witnesses?
And is that the representation
really part of an obstruction scheme?
And I think with employee number four,
I think what Harry just explained
is the switching of the lawyers
really speaks to that very issue,
that when he had a lawyer who was
paid for by the Trump Organization,
he said one thing
when that lawyer was conflicted
and he got a new lawyer, bingo.
He suddenly is
what appears to be,
in my mind, undoubtedly a cooperator.
You believe? Undoubtedly.
He is clearly doing well
and we're not just watching
this investigation.
We also now are watching Georgia as well.
And we long believed that August
would be the month
where there was
any movement in that case.
And we heard
from the Fulton County district attorney
on the investigation.
There are her view of it.
This is what she said
is accomplished
working for two and a half years.
We're ready to go
What do you make of that?
You think charges are coming?
Oh, yeah.
And ready to go means ready to go.
I actually think in saying September 1st,
she was looking to go give a little birth
to Jack Smith.
She was. It's very unusual.
They haven't communicated at all.
We've learned, which is strange
or at least unusual.
And I think in saying September 1st,
she was saying,
you've got a week or two
from news reports.
You might have said, I'm coming tomorrow.
No, you're okay, but pulled the trigger
relatively quickly.
Do you think it's strange
that they haven't coordinated I don't.
I can see Jack Smith wanting to be able
to say at the end of the day,
he was an influence
by anything exterior
to his own investigative team.
But I think that the, you know,
putting up the orange barriers
in front of the Fulton County Courthouse
pretty much sends
the signal that he needs.
But they're now practical issues.
You're right.
I think that he might
not have done it before
but they're not going to be
tripping over each other.
Different statements and grand jury
if they don't coordinate.
Well, for the district attorney,
you saw their funny Willis day.
There was an attempt
to essentially disqualify her
by the Trump team.
They cited comments
that she's made in the past.
I mean, did they have any merit
when they're talking about this,
that she has played a political role
in this as well?
She's a political appointee,
an official
you know, her
campaign actually did talk about Trump
that way.
I don't think it'll get anywhere,
but it's not completely
this is one of the few things
that have a little bit going for.
Yeah. Yeah. I look, I agree.
I don't think no one
the judge found it was
it was a slam dunk.
No standing.
So he didn't
he couldn't really bring the suit
and when the case
ultimately gets charged,
she still doesn't really have a claim.
I think his best claim
may be some sort
of selective prosecution.
That's an incredibly difficult
charge to succeed on.
So I think this is all a lot of noise.
We just talk to a lot right there.
DC, Florida.
Fulton County doing our best.
David Kelley,
thank you both for being here. Thank you.