– Naturally it would be very..
it was very awkward for me as I'm sure you can imagine
to tell my family and friends that I've grown up with,
that that I'm a Muslim.
– Telling someone I don't drink because I'm a Muslim isn't something I'm shy to say,
this is a blessing like I'm proud that I don't drink.
– Praying with a couple of friends in the park
and it was very interesting because there was this lady
shouting with the husband and there was like something
out of a movie and the dog was barking,
they like – Are they praying?
Call the police. They can't pray here.
And my friends felt really insecure and they were really in a rush to leave.
– When did I feel awkward?
I think there was instances where because of the environment at university
where maybe there's like a big group setting
or when you're getting to know someone maybe at work
or whoever where there's seems to be a lot of
bad stereotypes about Muslims in Islam in the media specifically
where you have to work with that baggage
you can't show yourself because once you tell them you're Muslim for example
certain stereotypes automatically pop into their head
and that really restricts what I'm trying to achieve for example
like it could be trying to get ahead at work
or trying to do this at university
just knowing that stereotype exists in the mind
it really restricts what I want to achieve
and that's where I felt awkward at times
but it's not to say it's always a thing
but at moments I have had that sort of thought pop in.
– I was a bit through this one because like I've never felt awkward to say that I'm a Muslim
I think another thing is like I look very clearly Muslim.
But the certain situation is like I can't shake your hand
because I'm a Muslim is the one's very good maybe a little bit more awkward.
– And there's a lot of assumptions with that as well
Why are you not shaking my hand? You don't like women?
– For me it's mostly with my family, coming from a non-Muslim family
and obviously growing up in an environment that was very far from religion in general
let alone Islam which was something that we grew up with as it mentioned on the TV,
creating conflict in faraway lands
and something which was seen as a peril in Australia,
naturally it would be very..
it was very awkward for me as I'm sure you can imagine
to tell my family and friends that I've grown up with that I'm a Muslim,
they they couldn't believe
that I would go in that direction with my life,
it was just something that..
it was considered so shocking.
Why do you guys not feel awkward?
– Well for me personally I think it's somewhat of a blessing,
this religion is something special.
Because I am from England as well so a lot of my experiences with non–Muslims
but we have to remember as well which is really important
as well as we do have celestial brothers as well
but we also have our terrestrial brothers like on the ground
and there's a lot of things that we can learn from everybody
but for me personally I don't swear right,
that's one thing I don't swear
because it's kind of a sign of you don't have to articulate yourself properly,
so my friends ask me – Oh Mohammed why don't you swear?
I would tell – Religion told you to be kind and to perfect manners so that's one reason
and it also brings a very joy smile to my face as well,
because it's a good thing to talk about and it's an opportunity for both of you to learn and to grow essentially.
– I think that point's a massive one, like it's a blessing,
like telling someone I don't drink because I'm a Muslim isn't something like I'm a bit shy to say,
this is a blessing like I'm proud that I don't drink.
On the contrary not to like be dominion
but that's the action that you want to stay away,
that's the one you should be ashamed of,
whereas being a Muslim I'm proud that I'm Muslim.
– But don't get me wrong but these questions come up all the time
like when I was at work a friend of mine asked me
– Oh Muhammed what did you do for New Year?
I just stay home all day..
Do you drink with your mates? I'm like – Nah man, I'm Muslim.
There is a time where we get overwhelmed with all these questions
and we kind of run out of that energy so that's understandable too
but you have to understand that it's not sort of ignorance that people may have
but then again take that opportunity, grasp it, hold it
and actually tell them what it's about because obviously there's a lot of false narratives
that we've all consumed and we all read and we hear about
so it's a really good opportunity for each of us to really learn
and benefit from one another.
– I don't know what that means
like you know obviously as a Muslim woman
you're automatically publicly portraying yourself as a Muslim
but whether you should proactively go about branding your faith
is it's probably up to each individual, everyone does that differently.
But we obviously live in a non–Muslim country
Australians generally say don't talk about religion or politics
so there's a way about identifying yourself
and people that brandish their faith, some people don't like that, others do
but I think actions speak louder than words,
I think you should embody the character of a Muslim
without the label and I think that'll go a mile further
than branding your faith but obviously
Muslim women are in a completely different scenario some Muslim men as well
but I just think whether it's necessary to publicly
present yourself as a Muslim well what does that mean?
Are you saying adopt a characteristical? Of course.
But are you saying to tell everyone that you're Muslim
everywhere you go and shove that down other people's throats?
I don't know if that's right.
– Sorry, but you said the thing about like
we have this culture of don't speak about politics, don't speak about religion,
I don't know if i like that culture,
because we've moved to the extreme now where it's like you can't even talk about it
and then you end up with horrible political opinions
that you can't even criticize because don't speak about politics in public,
don't speak about religion in public.
Whereas what we should be doing is having sensible respectable discussions about these things.
– But I mean.. I take your point
and it's true in circles yeah of course, the discussion should be had in situations
like for example there was a recent video of aa christian evangelical who was on the bus
on the train yelling at people telling them..
in that context obviously Australians don't appreciate that
just generally people don't going about their business
and being shoved religion down their throat
but in certain circles it is appropriate.
– Flip it opposite way,
should you consider the fact that you're a Muslim
or should you try to like just blend in..
– What is the Muslim life..
like if you're wearing a head scarf you're publicly Muslim,
but if you're not..
– What about changing your name so it doesn't appear..
– Well I didn't change my mind,
so the reason I said yes was because of what you first mentioned
I remember one scholar in the United States
they mentioned that men should wear the sunnah as well
in solidarity with women because women are on the front lines,
they can't in any way sort of like hide their Muslims,
like they wear the hijab
whereas men like everyone has a beard nowadays, it's fashionable.
– Speak for yourself. – Sorry.
It's like no one's gonna question you if you're going to a workplace with a beard,
so one scholar in the United States was saying
that you should wear this one as a man and to like in solidarity.
I didn't change my name personally because
I identify.. obviously you don't have to change your name when you convert,
some misconception I think some people have.
I personally feel that it's something admirable
to identify as a Muslim,
whether that means like shoving it down people's throats
and like sort of being aggressive in your Dawah,
in an almost reactionary sense, that's a different thing
but I think that's different from having a personal kind of display of that.
– I think probably most of us have had an experience of like there's no way to pray
and then you're praying and it's just people talk past
and a quiet corner..
I don't know if it's something that we should have
like theoretically probably we should be more proud
we need to express your Deen
but it's just..
– You want to be but it's not so easy sometimes,
you feel kind of self–conscious,
there's the famous foot in the sink situation.
– With me I feel that I would pray in public
but I'd be had to be in situations
where I was essentially there's a lot of people
busy street or whatever,
I remember it's like literally pray on a footpath
like with all these people going back and forth,
because prayer time is running out that sort of situation,
so you're just always thinking what is someone that doesn't like Islam,
just sort of comes in and tackles you or hits you and you won't see it coming
because you're in your salah
and one situation that really stuck out for me personally
was once I was praying on the plane
so I was like standing up I had my little space
but then there was like seats so those people
were sitting behind me but I'm praying in that direction
and so as I'm praying I could hear comments like it was very clear though
it was like two guys they were commenting about
– Oh is he praying? Is he Muslim?
Is he a religious folk?
Why do they still believe in this?
Those kind of comments as you're praying it just really sat with me
and makes me feel uncomfortable.
ALhamduliLlah a lot of you as you mentioned in those parks and stuff
you'll be praying there's not many people around
but then it's just that thought when you're in a busy place
or you have to pray somewhere where you know something might happen or something
and I've always felt awkward at times doing that.
– I've experienced something similar to that as well only recently
praying with a couple of friends in the park
and it was very interesting because there was this lady
shouting with the husband and there was like something
of the movie and the dog was barking,
they like – Are they praying?
Call the police. They can't pray here.
And my friends felt really insecure
and they were really in a rush to leave.
I'm a bit of..
I'm not saying it's pessimistic
let's take this opportunity why did we pray,
although you can meet a lot of possible violence as well, it can be difficult.
– No? Okay, can we get the NOs, why?
– I don't know if maybe I'm just opening the question differently
I feel like there isn't much representation
but I don't have an issue with it
I'm not looking for representation in media any politics
I don't feel like – let's go out and seek representation,
it's just it is what it is.
– Seeking reputation is interesting to me,
actually on that topic because I think there are some voices
that are out there
but like I said to before a lot of the backlash that we get is
from our own community so we do have voices out there
and it's not like they're gonna changing themselves
or putting a show on,
it's just you know whatever they're talking about maybe in the daily show
or whether they're just a local member for parliament,
that's their role but we they get a lot of backlash from us essentially
but we are being represented but everyone has their own opinion
that they hold on to right and I think we judge those people on such a pedestrian
if you would like to call it too critically.
– Like on that point in the UK there's a lot of Muslim members in parliament
but when you see certain issues
that they're voting on and it's like the stances that they're taking us.
– That's true.
– You might as well not even be Muslim in that like in that sense
that you're not representing Muslim voices, you're not presenting Muslim opinions,
it's just a Muslim name, a Muslim face, and to me that doesn't offer anything,
you have Muslim celebrities, comedians, singers, actors
and we would probably be better off this if these people were not representing us.
– I mean there's a whole question on like what is the value of representation
and it has to come with you know islamic doctrines,
like what is being a Muslim representative,
you have to be Muslim but what does that entail you, it's not just a label
but I think for a population of like 2.2 percent Australian Muslims
if there is small representation is that a bad thing
for a population of 2.2 percent, I think it's pretty decent.
We have members of parliament, we have people in the media.
– I think one thing, this is a really really deep topic
and one issue that I sometimes feel we have
is because of the narrative of Muslims in the media for example
we're sort of in the back foot to prove ourselves to be like we're good people and this and that
which is fine, that's the natural reaction that's what you're going to have
if you're being misrepresented.
But at the same time once when we go down that route
what we end up doing is that we pay ourselves too much
in the sense that we're very good people,
we do this and that and give charity which is great
but at the end of the day we don't actually bring to surface
our actual humanity in the sense that there are people
that struggle to be a Muslim for example or do like drugs or alcohol
and still call themselves Muslim and that sort of stories don't surface
and our sort of genuine portrayal of being a Muslim becomes lost
where we're trying to prove our sort of humanity in the first place
and I think that's also a bigger issue when it comes
to representation where we go too far on one spectrum and sort of explain
– No, we're really really good
but in fact our community isn't good, it's imperfect.
– That's interesting if you think about that one.
Imean you should be happy for your brothers or your sisters regardless.
– The other flip side would be that
because he's in the spotlight they're gonna judge being a Muslim on that guy
and it's like when he does fall short in one aspect
suddenly it's like the Muslim community falls back
and that's where the pressure lies as a community,
so I feel like that expectation that's put on him sometimes
is might be problematic if that makes sense.
– If a Muslim excel I wouldn't have any hesitation
but excel in public is a bit..
on what basis, on whose standards are you excelling?
When you say in public
what limelight is being put on you, what pressures are being put on you
that make things a lot harder?
I think if the question was do you get happy
when you see a Muslim excel I wouldn't have any hesitation
but the excel in public is the bit that just gets me a bit hesitant
because when you're saying in public
on whose standards with what pressure are you being made to excel,
there's this extra standard, extra pressure has put on you
and you have so much other things that come into play
but in terms of Muslim exceling prophet ﷺ said
that if anybody does anything he should perfect it.
So we should always be happy when Muslims do things well
and they carry our community forward
I just gotta be hesitant when somebody has the extra limelight
and the extra pressure put on them.
– Like Tanzim said an individual excelling
would then carry the burden of the community, I get that.
But we shouldn't think that an individual Muslim excelling is necessarily
representative of the whole Muslim community, they are an individual in their own right
and they're excelling in their own talents and their flaws are their own,
we shouldn't carry that baggage.
– I don't really agree with you but the rest of the society
or like non–Muslims they'll put that expectation onto that Muslim
like hey look at that Muslim..
– Look at what people like Muhammad Ali
have done for the Muslims,
that was literally because of his public platform he had such a positive impact on islam..
– And who criticizes him? – Exactly as almost universal acclaim.
– Be like Malcolm X.
I'm definitely happy if our brothers and sisters is exceling
but it's just like that expectation because we can also come up with the examples
we didn't pan out the way we hoped.
– I guess the caveat is that I want Muslims to excel
and stay sat fast in the Deen but when they excel
and end up in public and then you end up compromising
and having sacrifice and you lose aspects of your Deen I don't think it's ever worth it.