HIS MESSAGING REMAINS THE SAME.
LAWYERS FOR HIS COMPANY DENY ANY
WRONGDOING.
MEANWHILE WERE GETTING
EXTRAORDINARY NEW DETAILS ABOUT
THE ABRUPT BREAK BETWEEN DONALD
TRUMP AND HIS FORMER ATTORNEY
GENERAL BILL BARR IN THE WEEKS
AFTER THE 2020 ELECTION.
THESE REVELATIONS COME FROM
JONATHAN KARL OF ABC NEWS IN A
SERIES OF INTERVIEWS IN AN
UPCOMING BOOK WHICH HE DID HE
TAILS FOR "THE ATLANTIC."
BARR SAID THE D.A. CALLED IT
VOTER FRAUD.
NOW HE TELLS JONATHAN KARL HE
WAS SKEPTICAL ABOUT TRUMPS
CLAIMS.
>> IF I FOUND SOMETHING, YOU
KNOW, I HAD NO MOTIVE TO
SUBPOENA ARE PRESSSUCH
PRESS IT.
BUT MY SUSPICION ALL ALONG WAS
THERE WAS NOTHING THERE.
>> THAT IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM
BARRS REMARKS TO CNN DURING
THIS SEPTEMBER 2020 INTERVIEW
WHEN HE DENIED TRUMPS
FALSEHOODS ABOUT A TAINTED
ELECTION AFTER SEVERAL STATES
EXPANDED MAIL-IN VOTING BECAUSE
WE WERE IN THE MIDST OF A
PANDEMIC.
>> WHAT HE IS SAYING IS, HES
TRYING TO MAKE THE POINT THAT
THE ABILITY TO MONITOR THIS
SYSTEM IS NOT GOOD.
THIS IS PLAYING WITH FIRE.
WERE VERYA VERY CLOSELY DIVIDED
COUNTRY HERE.
IF PEOPLE HAVE TO HAVE
CONFIDENCE IN THE ELECTION AND
LEGITIMACY OF THE GOVERNMENT AND
PEOPLE TRYING TO CHANGE THE
RULES TO THIS METHODOLOGY WHICH,
AS A MATTER OF LOGIC, IS VERY
OPEN TO FRAUD AND COERCION, IS
RECKLESS AND DANGEROUS.
>> DOJ NEVER DID FIND ANY FRAUD,
AND IN DECEMBER BARR TOLD THE AP
THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF
ANYTHING THAT COULD HAVE
AFFECTED THE OUTCOME OF THE
ELECTION.
JONATHAN KARL REPORTS THAT
DURING A MEETING LATER IN
DECEMBER, A FURIOUS TRUMP
UNLOADED ON BARR OVER THE AP
STORY, QUOTE, HOW THE EXPLETIVE
COULD YOU DO THIS TO ME?
WHY DID YOU SAY IT?
BECAUSE ITS TRUE, BARR
ANSWERED.
THE PRESIDENT, LIVID, RESPONDED
THEY THREATEN CHARGES, THEY MEAN
IT.
I THINK ITS QUITE LIKELY WE
WILL SEE CHARGES IN THE COMING
DAYS.
>> JONATHAN KARL, TO YOU AND
YOUR EXCLUSIVE.
BILL BARR, AS WE ALL WATCHED, PLAYED PALACE GUARD AND HE
PLAYED PALACE GUARD AND HE
PLAYED SUPPLICANT, AND HE WEAPON
OOUZ
WEAPONIZED THE DOJ, SO WHAT
SHOULD WE MAKE OF THIS
CONVERSION OF A SPLIT FROM
TRUMP?
>> HE MISREPRESENTED THE MUELLER
REPORT, HE OVERCAREERED
PROSECUTORS TO MICHAEL FLYNN.
HE SEEMED LIKE WHAT TRUMP ALWAYS
WANTED, HIS OWN ROY KOHN
FORTUNATE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.
BUT THEN HE DID SOMETHING
DIFFERENT.
TRUMP WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW HE
WANTED TO SEE BIDEN PROSECUTED,
HE WANTED TO SEE OBAMA
PROSECUTED.
HE TALKED ABOUT HOW HE WANTED TO
HAVE A BIG HUNTER BIDEN
INVESTIGATION, ANNOUNCED HE
WANTED ALL THE DETAILS OF THE
ORIGINS OF THE MUELLER REPORT
REVEALED MT AT THAT
REVEALED.
AT THAT POINT IN THE MONTHS
BEFORE THE ELECTION, BARR SAID
NO, HE WASNT GOING TO GET
INVOLVED POLITICALLY.
HE DID RAISE CONCERNS ABOUT
MAIL-IN VOTING, BUT THE CRITICAL
MOMENT FOR BARR CAME AFTER THE
ELECTION ON DECEMBER 1st WHEN
TRUMP WAS MAKING ALL THOSE
OUTRAGEOUS CLAIMS ABOUT THE
ELECTION BEING STOLEN FROM HIM,
ABOUT CRAZY ALLEGATIONS,
UNFOUNDED ALLEGATIONS OF FRAUD.
HE WANTED HIS JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
TO GO INTO THOSE STATES, BRIAN,
AND TO SEIZE VOTING MACHINES AND
TO USE THE POWER OF JUSTICE TO
TRY TO OVERTURN ELECTION RESULTS
IN THOSE KEY STATES.
WHAT BARR DID, AND VERY LITTLE
OF THIS WAS ACTUALLY KNOWN AT
THE TIME, HE ACTUALLY DID HIS
OWN INFORMAL INVESTIGATION OF
THE MAJOR ALLEGATIONS THAT TRUMP
WAS LOOKING INTO, AND WHEN HE
ANNOUNCED ON DECEMBER 1st THAT
HE SAW NO EVIDENCE OF WIDESPREAD
FRAUD THAT COULD OVERTURN OR
AFFECT THE RESULTS OF THE
ELECTION, HE DID THAT BASED ON
INFORMATION.
IT WASNT JUST -- HE WASNT JUST
RESPONDING OFF THE CUFF, HE
ACTUALLY TOOK TRUMPS
ALLEGATIONS SERIOUSLY AND LOOKED
INTO THEM, AND WHEN HE CAME OUT
AND SHOT IT DOWN, IT HAD A
TREMENDOUS EFFECT.
SO WHAT WE SEE NOW AND WHAT I
REPORTED ON HERE IS THE REACTION
THAT TRUMP HAD.
AND ILL TELL YOU, I DESCRIBED
THIS MEETING IN THE DINING ROOM
RIGHT ADJACENT TO THE OVAL
OFFICE, YOU KNOW THE ROOM.
I DESCRIBED WHO WAS IN THERE.
YOU HAD THE WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL
IN THERE, YOU HAD ANOTHER WHITE
HOUSE ATTORNEY, YOU HAD THE
CHIEF OF STAFF, YOU HAD BILL
BARR, YOU HAD BILL BARRS CHIEF
OF STAFF.
AND SEVERAL OF THE PEOPLE WHO
WERE IN THERE HAVE DESCRIBED TO
ME SEEING TRUMP ANGRIER THAN
THEY HAD EVER SEEN HIM.
ONE SAID HE HAD THE EYES AND THE
MANNERISMS OF A MADMAN.
AND IT WAS -- YOU READ PART OF
WHAT I REPORTED OF WHAT WENT
BACK AND FORTH THERE.
WHEN THAT MEETING BROKE UP, BILL
BARR WAS NOT SURE IF HE HAD JUST
BEEN FIRED.
HIS EMPLOYMENT STATUS WAS, AS IT
WAS DESCRIBED TO ME BY ONE
PARTICIPANT, UNCERTAIN.
AND HE LEFT.
HE GOT A CALL FROM MEADOWS THE
NEXT DAY.
HE SAID, I THINK WE CAN KEEP HIM
FROM FIRING YOU, BUT YOU HAVE TO
PROMISE ME YOURE NOT JUST GOING
TO RESIGN, AND HE STAYED ON
ANOTHER COUPLE WEEKS.
BUT THAT WAS A DECISIVE MOMENT
WHERE I BELIEVE THINGS ACTUALLY
COULD HAVE GOTTEN A LOT WORSE.
I THINK WILLIAM BARR IS NOT
READY TO BE, IN MY WORLD, CAST
IN STONE.
>> JON KARL, OF ALL THE TIME YOU
SPENT TALKING TO BILL BARR, DID
ANY ONE THING, ONE MOMENT, ONE
COMMENT SURPRISE YOU MOST?
>> WELL, WHAT SURPRISED ME WAS
THE BLUNTNESS WITH WHICH HE
DESCRIBED TRUMPS ALLEGATION,
USING THE WORD THAT YOU BLEEPED
OUT.
THIS WAS ALL B.S.
WHAT SURPRISED ME IS THE WAY HE
WENT THROUGH IN THE WEEDS -- I
SPENT A LONG TIME, I INTERVIEWED
HIM ABOUT FIVE DIFFERENT TIMDSES
BY THE WAY, HE WASNT RUNNING
OUT AND TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO
TELL US.
I HAD BEEN BROWBEATING HIM FOR
FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS TO TRY TO
GET THIS INTERVIEW.
WHAT SPRITDURPRISED ME, HE WAS I
WEEDS ABOUT THE ALLEGATIONS OF
THE VOTING MACHINES, ABOUT
DUMPING THE BALLOTS.
THE POINT HERE IS THIS STORY IS
NOT REALLY ABOUT BILL BARR AND
BILL BARRS REPUTATION.
THAT MAY NOT MATTER THAT MUCH.
WHAT IS HE, 81 YEARS OLD, HELL
PROBABLY NOT SERVE AGAIN.
I DONT KNOW IF THAT MATTERS.
BILL BARR WAS THE ONLY PERSON
AMONG THE TRUMP FAITHFUL AMONG
THOSE WHO BELIEVE THE ELECTION
IS STOLEN, WHO BELIEVES ALL
THOSE LIES.
WHAT I THINK IS SIGNIFICANT IS
HOW THOSE WORDS ABOUT PLAY WITH
THOSE PEOPLE.
IF EVEN BILL BARR, EVEN THE GUY
THAT STOOD BEHIND TRUMP AND
CALLED THE RUSSIA INVESTIGATION
EFFECTIVELY A WITCH HUNT JUST
LIKE TRUMP DID, EVEN IF THAT GUY
TOOK THE TIME, LOOKED INTO ALL
THIS AND SAID, MY GOD, THERE IS
NOTHING HERE.
NOT JUST A STATEMENT BUT INTO
THE DETAILS AND SAYING, YOU KNOW
THE BALLOTS YOU SAW IN THE
SUITCASE GETTING PULLED OUT
UNDER THE TABLE IN GEORGIA?
HERES WHY THATS A RIDICULOUS
THING MT
THING.
HE KNOWS THE ANSWERS, HE KNOWS
HOW TO ANSWER THESE PEOPLE.
THE QUESTION IS, WILL IT HAVE AN
IMPACT?
NOT MUCH HAS HAD AN IMPACT ON
THAT LOYAL TRUMP BASE, BUT IF