IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS MIGHT BE FOR GOVERNMENT WORKERS.
>> IT’S BECOME PRETTY ROUTINE,
CURRENT AND FORMER STATE
DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS MAKING
THEIR WAY TO CAPITOL HILL
PREPARING TO TESTIFY BEFORE
CONGRESS AS PART OF THE ON GOING
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY AGAINST
DONALD TRUMP.
DONALD TRUMP. THEY ARRIVED ONE BY ONE,
BRIEFCASE IN HAND WITH TEAMS OF
LAWYERS AND MADE ME THINK, WHO
IS ON THE HOOK FINANCIALLY FOR
ALL THOSE LAWYERS AND FLIGHTS
AND HOTEL ROOMS?
IN SOME CASES I LEARNED, THE
OFFICIALS ARE.
OFFICIALS ARE. IT TURNS OUT GOVERNMENT
OFFICIALS ARE PAYING A PRICE OF
TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR
TESTIFYING IN THE IMPEACHMENT
AND THAT HAS SOME WONDERING HOW
THEY WILL AFFORD THE LEGAL BILLS
IF CONGRESS COMES KNOCKING WITH
THE SUBPOENA.
THE SUBPOENA. PRESIDENT TRUMP IN A TOUGH SPOT,
ON THE ONE HAND, IF THEY RESIST
THE CONGRESSIONAL SUBPOENA AND
REFUSE TO TESTIFY, THEY CAN BE
CHARGED WITH CONTERCH.MPT.
ON THE OTHER HAND, IF THEY ARE
TOLD NOT TO TESTIFY, THE
PRESIDENT IS CALLED IT AN
ILLEGITIMATE WITCH HUNT.
>> THIS IS AN UNPRECEDENTED
SITUATION.
SITUATION. WE’VE NEVER HAD OUR PEOPLE IN
THIS KIND OF SITUATION BEFORE.
>> ERIC RUBEN IS PRESIDENT OF
THE AMERICA KAREN FOREIGN
SERVICE ASSOCIATION AND AN
EMPLOYEE GROUP THAT REPRESENTS
FOREIGN SERVICE OFFICERS.
>> WE’RE IN UNCHARTED WATERS
TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE BEST
WAY TO NAVIGATE THEM.
>> ARE YOU GETTING A LOT OF
CALLS FROM GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES
WHO ARE WORRIED ABOUT MAYBE
BEING ASKED TO TESTIFY?
>> WE ARE FROM OUR MEMBERS, YES,
WE ARE.
WE ARE. PEOPLE ARE FINDING THEMSELVES
CAUGHT BETWEEN DIRECTIVES FROM
THEIR EMPLOYER FROM THE
PRESIDENT FROM THE SECRETARY OF
STATE OR OTHER AGENCIES NOT TO
APPEAR BEFORE CONGRESS AND THEN
THEY ARE RECEIVING LEGAL
SUBPOENAS THAT FROM CONGRESS
THAT HAVE THE COURSE OF LAW.
SO THEY ARE HAVING TO MAKE A
DECISION WHICH TO OBEY AND
DISOBEY.
DISOBEY. WE’VE NEVER HAD A SITUATION LIKE
THAT.
THAT. >> AN OFFICIAL ASKED TO TESTIFY
WOULD WANT THE HELP OF A ERNL
MANY LAWYER.
MANY LAWYER. ACCORDING TO ERIC, IT’S A
NECESSITY.
NECESSITY. >> IT’S CONSIDERED A REALLY BAD
IDEA TO GO INTO ONE OF THE
HEARINGS OR DEPOSITIONS, EVEN IF
YOU’RE NOT A PERSON WHO IS BEING
LOOKED AT AS A POSSIBLE
LAWBREAKER BUT EVEN IF YOU’RE
JUST A WITNESS, YOU REALLY NEED
A LAWYER IN THIS KIND OF THING.
>> THE THING IS, THOSE LAWYERS
ARE EXPENSIVE.
ARE EXPENSIVE. FROM WHAT I FOUND.
ANYWHERE FROM 700 TO $1500 AN
HOUR.
HOUR. IF LAWYERS WANT TO WORK ON SUCH
A HIGH-PROFILE CASE PRO BONO,
THEY CAN’T BECAUSE THEY CAN’T
HAVE FREE LEGAL COUNSEL.
IT’S CONSIDERED AN ETHICS
VIOLATION.
VIOLATION. SEVERAL AMBASSADORS SAID MOVING
FORWARD, EVEN LOWER LEVEL
OFFICIALS SAY DIPLOMATS IN
UKRAINE COULD FACE ALL KINDS OF
COSTS IF THEY ARE ASKED TO
TESTIFY.
TESTIFY. THEY MIGHT HAVE TO PAY FOR
AIRFARE OR TEMPORARY HOUSING IN
D.C.
D.C. WHEN I STARTED THINKING OF THE
COSTS, I WONDERED IF SOME
INSURANCE WOULD COVER THEM.
SENIOR GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS DO
BUY PRIVATE PROFESSIONAL
LIABILITY INSURANCE.
LIABILITY INSURANCE. WHEN I CALLED AROUND, PROVIDERS
SAID THESE PACKAGES WON’T COVER
ANYTHING RELATED TO IMPEACHMENT.
WHEN FEDERAL EMPLOYEES BUY
PROFESSIONAL LIABILITY
PROFESSIONAL LIABILITY INSURANCE, WHAT EXACTLY ARE THEY
COVERED FOR?
COVERED FOR? >> THREE BASIC COVERAGE AREAS.
ONE IS CIVIL BECAUSE THEY GET
SUED IN THEIR PERSONAL CAPACITY
AND NEED PROTECTION.
THE SECOND ONE IS WHAT WE CALL
ADMINISTRATIVE INVESTIGATIONS,
ADMINISTRATIVE INVESTIGATIONS, THAT COULD LEAD TO ANY KIND OF
JOB ACTION.
JOB ACTION. AND THEN THE THIRD AREA IS
CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION.
CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION. >> SO FOR GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS
WHO HAVEPROFESSIONAL LIGHTY
INSURANCE, ARE THEY COVERED IF
THEY ARE CALLED TO TESTIFY?
>> WE’VE GOTTEN A LOT OF CALLS
FROM FOREIGN SERVICE OFFICERS
WHO ARE IN OUR DEPARTMENT OF
DEFENSE OFFICIALS WHO ARE CAUGHT
UP INTO THIS IMPEACHMENT
PROCEEDING INTO OUR PEOPLE THAT
THINK THEY MIGHT AND IT REALLY
SORT OF TURNS ON WHETHER YOU ARE
A SUBJECT OR A WITNESS.
IT REALLY NEEDS TO INVOLVE SOME
SORT OF WRONGDOING ON YOUR PART
OR MISTAKE IS AN EASY WAY TO
LOOK THAT THE AND ARE YOU A
SUBJECT OR A MERE WITNESS?
THE IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS, THE
ONLY KNOWN SUBJECT IS THE
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
>> THE PRESIDENT’S CONDUCT IS
UNDER SKUD SKRUTCRUTINY AND A
FEDERAL EMPLOYEE CALLED IN, THIS
IS A WITNESS.
INSURANCE IS NOT COVERING THOSE
COSTS.
COSTS. >> GENERALLY, I WOULD SAY YEAH.
SQUARELY JUST THE WITNESS IS NOT
GOING TO COVER THE COSTS.
>> CAREER CIVIL SERVANTS AND
FOREIGN CIVIL OFFICERS, THE COST
OF TESTIFYING BEFORE CONGRESS
CAN BE OVERWHELMING, WHICH IS
WHY THE AMERICAN FOREIGN SERVICE
ASSOCIATION IS TRYING TO RAISE
CASH ASKING FOR DONATIONS TO
HELP COVER THE FEES.
>> IT’S OUR OWN VERSION OF MAYBE
GO FUND ME OR SOMETHING LIKE
THAT.
THAT. AGAIN, WE HAVEN’T HAD TO DO THIS
MUCH EVER, BUT WE NOW HAVE SO
MANY OF OUR COLLEAGUES WHO ARE
NOW CAUGHT UP IN THIS, AGAIN,
NOT BECAUSE THEY DID ANYTHING
WRONG BUT BECAUSE THEY WERE
WITNESSES THAT PARTICIPATE IN
MEETINGS AND NOW THEY HAVE TO GO
AND DO THESE LENGTHY DEPOSITIONS
AND SO WE HAVE GONE OUT TO OUR
MEMBERS AND THE PUBLIC TO ASK
FOR DONATIONS TO HELP WITH LEGAL
EXPENSES FOR AMERICAN SERVICE
PEOPLE WHO GET CALLS INTO THESE
HEARINGS.
HEARINGS. >> THAT SEEMS WILD TO ME THAT WE
GOT GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS WHO
WERE CALLED TO TESTIFY IN THIS
INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT PROCEEDINGS
AND YOU ARE RUNNING AN ONLINE
CAMPAIGN ASKING FOR SMALL
DONATIONS, A FEW DOLLARS HERE
AND THERE TO FUND THE LAWYERS.
THAT’S SURPRISING.
THAT’S SURPRISING. >> TO EMPHASIZE THESE ARE PUBLIC
CAREERS, CIVIL SERVANTS, FOREIGN
OFFICERS THAT DON’T HAVE A LOT
OF MONEY USUALLY.
OUR COLLEAGUES HAD TO GIVE
DEPOSITIONS WHICH ARE CLOSED
BEFORE THE HOUSE OF
REPRESENTATIVES.
REPRESENTATIVES. IT IS NOW CLEAR THAT SOME OF
THEM WILL BE CALLED BACK FOR
PUBLIC HEARINGS, TELEVISED
PUBLIC HEARINGS.
PUBLIC HEARINGS. THAT MEANS THE COST WILL
CONTINUE.
CONTINUE. I CAN’T GIVE YOU AN EXACT
NUMBER.
NUMBER. IT DEPENDS ON EACH PERSON AND
HOW LONG IT GOES BUT THE PHRASE
TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS
CAPTURES IT.
CAPTURES IT. >> AFTER THE CIA WHISTLE BLOWER
WHO COMPLAINED TO PRESIDENT
TRUMP ABOUT THIS PROCESS, WE
DON’T KNOW HIS IDENTITY BUT WE
CAN ASSUME HE’S RACKING UP LEGAL
BILLS, TOO.
BILLS, TOO. THIS LED ONE NON-PROFIT TO SET
UP, YOU GUESSED IT, A GO FUND ME
WHICH RAISED NEARLY A QUARTER OF
A MILLION DOLLARS.
HELPING TO CROWD FOUND ONE OF