DEFENDER ON THE FLOOR OF THE UNITED STATES SENATE.
THIS GUY IS A WRECKING BALL, HE
HAD THIS GUY MURDERED IN A
CONSULATE IN TURKEY AND TO
EXPECT ME TO IGNORE IT, I FEEL
USED AND ABUSED.
I WAS ON THE FLOOR EVERY TIME
DEFENDING SAUDI ARABIA BECAUSE
THEY ARE A GOOD ALLY.
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A
COUNTRY AND AN INDIVIDUAL.
THE MBS FIGURE IS TO ME TOXIC,
HE CAN NEVER BE A WORLD LEADER
ON THE WORLD STAGE.
>> ALL RIGHT.
JOINING US NOW FORMER CIA
DIRECTOR JOHN BRENNAN.
HE ALSO SERVED AS CIA STATION
CHIEF IN SAUDI ARABIA FOR THREE
YEARS AND HE IS CURRENTLY A
SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY AND
INTELLIGENCE ANALYST FOR NBC
NEWS.
NEWS. THANKS FOR BEING ON THIS
MORNING.
MORNING. SIR, ON THE PRESIDENT
EQUIVOCATING AND LYING ON THE
WORLD STAGE ABOUT THE POTENTIAL
ALLEGED MURDER OF A JOURNALIST,
WHY ISN’T THERE MORE PUSH BACK
FROM INSIDE HIS ADMINISTRATION,
FROM THE FOREIGN POLICY
COMMUNITY, FROM THE NATIONAL
SECURITY COMMUNITY, FROM PERHAPS
THE SECRETARY OF STATE WHO IS
THERE?
THERE? WHY AREN’T WE SEEING SOMETHING
STRONGER, MORE CLEAR AND MORE IN
LINE WITH AMERICAN VALUES?
>> WELL, I THINK THIS HAS BEEN
CONSISTENT WITH OTHER INSTANCES
IN THE PAST WHERE INDIVIDUALS
HAVE BEEN RELUCTANT TO SPEAK
OUT, DESPITE THE FACTS AND
REALITY, BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP IS
SOMEBODY WHO DOES NOT ALLOW THAT
TYPE OF DISSENSION AND TAKES IT
VERY PERSONALLY.
VERY PERSONALLY. I DO THINK THAT DONALD TRUMP AND
OTHERS RIGHT NOW ARE TRYING TO
FIND OUT HOW THEY CAN NAVIGATE
WHAT IS, I THINK, A VERY
DIFFICULT SITUATION.
DIFFICULT SITUATION. TRYING TO PRESERVE NOT JUST THE
UNITED STATES RELATIONSHIP WITH
SAUDI ARABIA BUT THEIR OWN
PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH
MOHAMMAD BIN SALMAN.
>> MR. DIRECTOR, THE APPARENT
MURDER OF JAMAL KHASHOGGI TOOK
PLACE 15 DAYS AGO, TURKISH
OFFICIALS ACCORDING TO PUBLISHED
REPORTS HAVE SHARED AUDIO
REPORTS OF WHAT THEY SAY
HAPPENED, SURVEILLANCE AUDIO, IN
THE ROOM WHEN KHASHOGGI WAS
KILLED WITH U.S. INTELLIGENCE.
SO HOW MUCH THIS MORNING DOES
U.S. INTELLIGENCE KNOW ABOUT THE
DEATH OF KHASHOGGI?
>> I THINK THEY KNOW A LOT MORE
THAN WE KNOW AND I THINK THEY’VE
BEEN GETTING INFORMATION FROM
THEIR TURKISH COUNTERPARTS AS
WELL AS OTHER TYPES OF
INTELLIGENCE CAPABILITIES,
INTELLIGENCE CAPABILITIES, TECHNICAL AND OTHERWISE AND
THAT’S WHY THEY ARE PUTTING
TOGETHER THE PICTURE OF WHAT
HAPPENED FOR DONALD TRUMP AND
OTHERS.
OTHERS. THAT’S WHY IT MAKES IT VERY
DIFFICULT FOR TRUMP AS WELL AS
MOHAMMED SALMAN TO CONCOCT SOME
COVER STORY BECAUSE I THINK THE
INTELLIGENCE WILL BELIE IT.
>> YOU’VE ANTICIPATED MY NEXT
QUESTION.
QUESTION. SO IN THE MORNING WHEN THE
PRESIDENT GETS HIS BRIEFING, IS
U.S. INTELLIGENCE SHARING
EVERYTHING IT KNOWS ABOUT THIS
STORY WITH HIM?
>> HOPEFULLY THEY ARE AND I HAVE
CONFIDENCE THAT MY COLLEAGUES
ARE TEEING UP AT LEAST TO THE
WHITE HOUSE WHAT IT IS THAT THEY
KNOW, AND THEIR CAPABILITY TO
COLLECT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION,
AND WHAT THE SAUDIS AND MBS
RIGHT NOW ARE DOING IN TRYING TO
COVER UP THE STORY.
>> MIKE, WHEN THE PRESIDENT GOES
OUT AND STANDS THERE AND SAYS I
TAKE THE SAUDIS AT THEIR WORD,
THEY’RE DENYING IT, HE’S DOING
THAT KNOWING ALL OF WHAT
DIRECTOR BRENNAN HAS TOLD US,
WHAT INTELLIGENCE IS SHARING
WITH HIM.
WITH HIM. >> WE DON’T KNOW WHAT’S IN THE
PRESIDENTIAL DAILY BRIEF BUT I
THINK THE DIRECTOR IS ABSOLUTELY
RIGHT.
RIGHT. LET ME ASK YOU THIS, GIVEN
EVERYTHING THAT WE KNOW THAT’S
ON THE PUBLIC RECORD TODAY
BECAUSE OF REPORTING, IT APPEARS
THAT THE CROWN PRINCE IS
TRIPPING RIGHT UP TO THE WIRE OF
ACCESSORY TO MURDER.
GIVEN THAT, GIVEN WHAT WE KNOW
AND GIVEN YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE
KINGDOM, WHAT ARE THEY DOING TO
TRY AND SAVE -- OR HOW MUCH
EFFORT ARE THEY PUTTING INTO
TRYING TO SAVE THE CROWN PRINCE
IN CONCOCTING A COVER STORY?
>> WELL, MOHAMMED SALMAN AS
CROWN PRINCE HAS A MONOPOLY ON
POWER IN SAUDI ARABIA AND
INCLUDING THE ROYAL FAMILY.
PEOPLE ARE NOW REPORTING TO HIM
AND I’M SURE THAT HE IS WORKING
WITH THEM TO TRY TO FIND OUT HOW
THAT THEY CAN PROTECT THEMSELVES
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY FOR HIM HOW
HE CAN PROTECT HIMSELF FROM
BEING IMPLICATED IN THIS.
KING SALMAN IF HE WERE IN HIS
YOUNGER YEARS I THINK HE WOULD
HAVE GOTTEN TO THE BOTTOM OF
THIS AND HE WOULDN’T CARE EVEN
IF IT WAS HIS FAVORITE SON THAT
DID SOMETHING LIKE THIS, I THINK
HE WOULD HOLD HIM TO ACCOUNT,
BUT I DON’T SEE WHO IS THE
INDEPENDENT VOICE NOW WITHIN THE
ROYAL FAMILY THAT HAS THE
STRENGTH AND THE POLITICAL
FORTITUDE TO BE ABLE TO
CHALLENGE THE CROWN PRINCE ON
THIS.
THIS. >> BUT ISN’T THE ASSUMPTION
BUILT INTO WHAT YOU JUST SAID,
THAT PEOPLE IN THE ROYAL FAMILY
WOULD OBJECT TO WHAT HAPPENED IN
ISTANBUL?
ISTANBUL? I MEAN, THIS IS -- WE ARE NOT --
AGAIN, I MAKE THIS POINT OVER
AND OVER AGAIN, WITH ERR NOT
TALKING ABOUT SWEDEN HERE, THIS
IS A COUNTRY, A ROYAL FAMILY
BECAUSE, OF COURSE, SAUDI ARABIA
IS A WHOLLY-OWNED FAMILY
BUSINESS, THIS IS A FAMILY THAT
USES BEE HEADING AND CRUCIFIXION
AS FORMS OF THE DEATH PENALTY.
THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE MONARCHY,
THERE IS NO FREEDOM, THEY USE
VIOLENCE TO ADVANCE THEIR GOALS
IN ALL KINDS OF WAYS.
HOW DIFFERENT IS THIS FROM THE
USUAL ORDER OF BUSINESS IN SAUDI
ARABIA THAT THIS FAMILY HAS
CONDUCTED OVER THE YEARS?
>> I THINK THIS IS VERY
DIFFERENT AND, YES, THINGS
HAPPENED IN THE PAST WHERE THE
SAUDIS WOULD ENGAGE IN THESE
TYPES OF HORRIFIC AND EXTRA
JUDICIAL ACTS THAT THEY WOULD
CARRY OUT.
CARRY OUT. THEY CARRY OUT ISLAMIC LAW, SO
EXECUTIONS AND THIS IS ALL
ACCORDING TO THE LAW, BUT THIS
GOES WELL BEYOND ANYTHING THAT I
HAVE SEEN IN MY HISTORY OF
WORKING IN AND WITH THE SAUDIS.
IT WOULDN’T HAVE HAPPENED BEFORE
MOHAMMAD BIN SALMAN HAD ASSUMED
THE CROWN PRINCE POSITION.
HE IS THE DAY TO DAY
DECISION-MAKER IN SAUDI ARABIA.
MY COUNTERPART WHEN I WAS THERE,
WE WERE WORKING VERY CLOSELY
WITH THE SAUDI INTELLIGENCE
SERVICES TRYING TO PROFESSIONAL
LIES THEM, TRYING TO MAKE SURE
THEY DID ADHERE TO WHAT THE
REQUIREMENTS ARE FOR
INTELLIGENCE SECURITY OFFICIALS.
I THINK MOHAMMAD BIN SALMAN HAS
THROWN THAT BOOK OUT THE DOOR
BECAUSE HE IS CONTINUING TO
CONSOLIDATE HIS POSITION AND
CONTINUE TO PREVENT OPPOSITION
FROM GAINING TRACTION THAT MIGHT
BE THREATENING TO HIM.
>> YOU’VE SAID THAT THE SAUDIS
ARE GOING TO HAVE TO CHOOSE
BETWEEN THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH
THE U.S. AND MOHAMMAD BIN
SALMAN, BUT IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE
YOU ARE NOT SURE THERE IS AN
ALTERNATIVE.
ALTERNATIVE. WHAT DOES THE FUTURE OF THE
SAUDI GOVERNMENT LOOK LIKE IF HE
CAN’T STAY IN THIS POSITION?
>> THERE IS NO CLEARLY ANOINTED
SUCCESSOR TO THE CROWN PRINCE
POSITION.
POSITION. I DON’T KNOW THE STATE OF KING
SALMAN’S CURRENT MENTAL HEALTH.
HE IS AGING AND I DON’T KNOW
WHETHER OR NOT HE IS ABLE TO
DEAL WITH THIS EFFECTIVELY.
I THINK MOHAMMAD BIN SALMAN HAS
BEEN VERY, VERY SCRUPULOUS AS
FAR AS PREVENTING THE KING FROM
RECEIVING ANY INFORMATION THAT
MOHAMMAD BIN SALMAN DOES NOT
WANT.
WANT. SO I THINK IT’S A REAL CRISIS
RIGHT NOW INSIDE OF THE SAUDI
GOVERNMENT.
GOVERNMENT. IT IS A CRISIS FOR U.S./SAUDI
RELATIONS AND I AM HOPING THAT,
AGAIN, THE CONGRESS WILL PUT THE
PRESSURE ON THE ADMINISTRATION
TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS AND
HOLD THE SAUDIS TO ACCOUNT AND I
THINK IT SQUARELY LIES IN
MOHAMMAD BIN SALMAN’S QUARTER.
>> I’M INTERESTED IN YOUR TAKE
ON SOMETHING A FORMER CIA
OFFICER TOLD ME WHEN WE WERE
TALK ABOUT THIS PRIVATELY.
EFFECTIVELY HE SAYS THE SAUDI
GOVERNMENT LIKES WHAT’S
HAPPENING RIGHT NOW BECAUSE,
NUMBER ONE, THIS HE DON’T THINK
THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WILL DO
ANYTHING SIGNIFICANTLY PUNITIVE,
BUT NUMBER TWO BECAUSE EVEN THE
GRUESOME DETAILS THAT ARE OUT IN
PUBLIC SENDS A MESSAGE TO OTHER
DISSIDENTS AND TO OTHER
JOURNALISTS THAT THIS IS WHAT
HAPPENS WHEN YOU CROSS THE
KINGDOM OF SAUDI ARABIA.
>> I DON’T AGREE WITH THAT.
>> YOU DON’T AGREE WITH THAT.
>> NO.
>> NO. I THINK MOHAMMAD BIN SALMAN
WOULD LIKE TO STIFLE AND QUIET
ANY TYPE OF CRITICISM BUT
CLEARLY THIS NOW IS GETTING TO
BE A DONNYBROOK AND I THINK
MOHAMMAD BIN SALMAN BADLY
MISCALCULATED THE REACTION TO
THIS.
THIS. LOOK WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO DAVOS
IN THE DESERT, EVERYBODY IS
PULLING BACK FROM THAT,
INVESTMENTS AND OTHER TYPES OF
THINGS.
THINGS. IT’S SENDING A SIGNAL TO
OPPONENTS IS ONE THING, BUT THE
ATTENDANT DOWN SIDES THAT ARE
ACCRUING NOW TO THE U.S./SAUDI
RELATIONSHIP, AS WELL AS HOW
INDIVIDUALS, NOT JUST AMERICANS,
BUT ALSO EUROPEANS AND OTHERS
ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT
MOHAMMAD BIN SALMAN, THIS IS A
STORY THAT’S GOING TO CONTINUE
TO PLAY OUT I THINK IN THE
COMING DAYS, WEEKS AND
ESSENTIALLY MONTHS.
ESSENTIALLY MONTHS. >> A MAN WHO KNOWS THIS COUNTRY
AND THIS STORY ALL TOO WELL,
FORMER CIA DIRECTOR JOHN
BRENNAN.
BRENNAN. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>>> STILL AHEAD, A RECENT U.N.
REPORT WARNED OF THE
CATASTROPHIC EFFECTS OF CLIMATE
CHANGE, BUT PRESIDENT TRUMP SAYS
NOT TO WORRY, HE HAS A NATURAL