How do you define ableism and how often in the day to day do you encounter people with
ableist attitudes or ableist behaviors?
I've confronted that pretty much on a daily basis, just little ways.
Like I'll just give you an example.
This is one that comes from my fans.
Sorry, fans.
People will come up to me and speak and they'll say things like, "Hey, I am a big fan of yours.
Can you lip read?"
And luckily, I can lip read a little bit, but if you're my fan, learn sign language.
So it's kind of weird.
You want to talk to me, learn my language.
During work, a lot of times, people make decisions without me being a part of it, without even
asking.
Like let's say at a photoshoot, they make decisions about what they want to do and everything,
but they have forgotten about me and I'm the model and so I should be the lead in this,
or at least have a say in it.
So it's that type of ableist thinking that, because I don't communicate in their language,
they make decisions without consulting me.
Let's talk about the fashion industry for which you and I are both a part.
I want to start with some numbers.
There are 70 million deaf people worldwide, according to the World Federation of the Deaf,
over 1 billion people worldwide with some form of disability, according to the World
Bank and, according to the Business of Fashion, the disabled community has a spending power
of more than $1 trillion.
So it seems like there's a lot of opportunities for the fashion industry to engage with the
disabled community.
And yet, do you think that this industry, our industry, is doing enough to engage with
the disabled community?
I don't think they're doing enough.
I think they're scared.
Obviously, they want things to sell, right?
But I think they forget that disability groups are the largest minority.
It's like 1.2 billion people in the world or something.
And so they need to realize, well, they need to be bold and bring in people with disabilities
and I guarantee you that they would get support.
There would be a groundswell if we got those two communities together and I don't think
that they haven't tried that yet.
Like for example, I'm a model, I'm part of the fashion industry, but I still have that
problem.
There are big campaigns out there who were afraid to hire me because I'm deaf, no matter
how I reassure them.
And so it seems like it's a work in progress and I'm not really sure how we can solve this
problem.
What about your experience in the beginning of your modeling days until now?
Do you see there being granular progress?
Yeah, definitely.
I remember the beginning days of my modeling career.
I was working with photographers, who I would meet and it was often the deer-in-headlights
response, but I always make an effort.
I text, communicate with them via my phone, gesture, and they would always realize how
easy it was, and they would say things like, "Oh, that wasn't that hard," and I'm like,
"No, it's not that hard."
But at this point in my career, photographers that I work with, it really goes smoothly
because I think there is more awareness out there and I've already proven myself and so
they know what they're doing and they know that I know what I'm doing and it just works.
Absolutely.
In a recent Business of Fashion podcast, disabled activist Sinéad Burke talked about the importance
of empathy versus sympathy and how empathy is what really creates real understanding.
I'm wondering what your take on that is.
It's interesting.
I probably have a bit of a different perspective on this.
I think that if a business really invests and let us make decisions for ourselves about
like the types of campaigns that we want to be a part of and what they should be, because
we've got the authentic perspective.
Like for example, I'm deaf and, from my perspective, I know what makes great TV, so I probably
know what's going to make a great campaign.
And so for me, I consider that to be part of empathy.
Sympathy would be bringing somebody into work with me in a tokenized way, somebody with
a disability versus bringing in my entire world to their campaign, which makes it authentic
and will actually help it to sell better.
So it's a two-way street.