I GREATLY APPRECIATE IT.
BEFORE WE TURN TO YOUR WORK ON
THE CHAUVIN TRIAL, NEIL, YOUR
RESPONSE TO ANY OF THE ABOVE ON
THIS ACT THAT IS TRYING TO
REFORM AN AREA YOU KNOW SO MUCH
ABOUT AND AS DISCUSSED THERE, WE
HEARD THE CONGRESSWOMAN SAYING
MAYBE THEY WILL GET A DEAL.
A LOT OF REPUBLICANS SEEM TO
THINK THAT’S A NONSTARTER FOR
THEM.
>> QUALIFIED IMMUNITY IS ONE
THING.
THAT’S THE TECHNICAL DOCTRINE
THAT HAS TO BE WELL ESTABLISHED
BEFORE YOU CAN SUE A COP IN CIVIL COURT.
CIVIL COURT.
BUT THE FLOYD ACT BANNING THE
CHOKE HOLDS, CARROTFEDERAL FUNDI
WILL BE CUTOFF.
THOSE KINDS OF REFORMS ARE
ESSENTIAL, ESSENTIAL, ARI.
WHEN YOU GET TO QUALIFIED
IMMUNITY, I AGREE WITH WHAT WAS
JUST SAID.
THE SUPREME COURT HAS GONE OUT
ON A LIMB TO PROTECT QUALIFIED
IMMUNITY.
I HAVE THAT CASE ABOUT STEALING.
COPS STOLE A BUNCH OF MUST BEONE
SOMEONE AND THE COURT SAID,
WELL, THERE IS NO CLEARLY
ESTABLISHED LAW AGAINST COPS
STEALING.
THEREFORE, THE COPS GOT OFF.
THAT MAKES ZERO SENSE.
I THINK IT IS UP TO CONGRESS.
IT’S GOT TO BE DONE.
>> YEAH.
THAT CARRIES A LOT GIVEN YOUR
EXPERIENCE IN THE COURTROOM.
YOU ARE SOMEONE THAT WE WOULD
HAVE CALLED UPON DURING THE
CHAUVIN TRIAL, WHICH OF COURSE
WAS CARRIED FOR MANY HOURS ON
THIS NETWORK AND OTHERS, EXCEPT
FOR THE FACT THAT BECAUSE OF
YOUR LEGAL DUTIES YOU WERE
WORKING THE TRIAL AND NOT
SPEAKING ON IT BEFORE THE
VERDICT.
SO WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A
VERY INTERESTING THING.
OBVIOUSLY, THESE ARE SAD TOPICS,
SO I WON’T CALL IT A TREAT, PER
SE, BUT IMPORTANT THAT YOU WERE
INVOLVED.
YOU WERE ON THAT TEAM HANDLING
AN ASPECT OF THE APPEAL.
SO YOU SHARED WITH US HERE FOR
THE FIRST TIME ON THE BEAT KEY
MOMENTS FROM THE TRIAL.
I WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT AS WELL
AS WHAT YOU SAW.
HERE IS THE OPENING.
TAKE A LOOK.
>> YOU WILL LEARN THAT DEREK
CHAUVIN DID EXACTLY WHAT HE HAD
BEEN TRAINED TO DO OVER THE
COURSE OF HIS 19-YEAR CAREER.
>> WALK US THROUGH THAT MOMENT
AND YOU CAN TELL US FROM YOUR
TIME ON THIS TEAM?
>> I WILL.
FIRST OF ALL, I HAVE BEEN
SPECIAL PROSECUTOR ON THE CASE,
ALONG WITH OTHERS.
SO I HAVE BEEN OFF THE AIR
BASICALLY FOR TWO MONTHS.
BUT I WANTED TO COME ON YOUR
SHOW FIRST TO TALK ABOUT THESE
LEGAL ISSUES BECAUSE FRANKLY YOU
ARE THE BEST LAWYER ON TV AND I
ENJOY YOUR CONVERSATIONS.
I CAN’T TALK ABOUT THE ACTUAL
CASE ITSELF.
WE STILL HAVE THE APPEAL, THE
SENTENCING AND SO MUCH GOING ON.
BUT I CAN TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE
BACKGROUND.
HERE I THINK WHAT YOU SAW THERE,
FROM MY MIND, WAS REALLY THE
TURNING POINT IN THE TRIAL JUST
FOR MYSELF.
I MEAN, WE KNEW HISTORICALLY HOW
HARD IT WAS TO PROSECUTE A COP,
PARTICULARLY FOR MURDER.
IT JUST ALMOST NEVER HAPPENS.
THE ODDS ARE STACKED AGAINST
YOU.
WHEN I HEARD THE DEFENSE
ATTORNEY, WHO DID A SUPERB JOB.
BUT WHEN I HEARD HIM SAY IN THE
OPENING THAT WE WILL SHOW THAT
OFFICER CHAUVIN ACTED EXACTLY
ACCORDING TO HIS TRAINING, I
THOUGHT, THAT’S GOING TO BE A
HARD ONE.
AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK MY
COURTROOM IDEA IS ALWAYS TO
UNDERPROMISE AND OVERDELIVER.
AND IT JUST STRUCK ME AS A
REALLY HARD THING TO SAY THAT
THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT THE TRAINING
IS.
AND THAT’S WHERE I THINK YOU SAW
REALLY A VERY DIFFERENT VIEW OF
POLICING AT THE TRIAL FROM, I
THINK, THE WAY A LOT OF PEOPLE
THINK OF IT, A VIEW IN WHICH A
POLICE OFFICER SAYS THIS IS NOT
THE WAY WE DO THINGS.
>> YEAH.
WE REALLY SAW THAT THROUGHOUT
THE COURSE OF IT.
AND THEN IN THE CLOSINGS ABOUT
WHETHER THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT
COULD REDEEM POLICING.
WOULD A GUILTY VERDICT BE GOOD
FOR POLICING TO THE EXTENT
PEOPLE WANT TO LOOK AT IT THAT
WAY.
OF COURSE THE JURORS HAVE AN
OBLIGATION TO SIMPLY FIND THE
FACTS.
THERE WAS ANOTHER MOMENT IN THE
CLOSING WHERE WE DO A LOT OF
JOURNALISM WHERE WE PICK
DIFFERENT THINGS HERE FOR
EVERYONE.
THIS IS WHAT YOU SPECIFICALLY
FLAGGED GIVEN YOUR EXPERIENCE.
LET’S LOOK AT THIS CLOSING
MOMENT HERE.
TAKE A LOOK.
>> YOU WERE TOLD, FOR EXAMPLE,
THAT MR. FLOYD DIED -- THAT MR.
FLOYD DIED BECAUSE HIS HEART WAS
TOO BIG.
YOU HEARD THAT TESTIMONY.
AND THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS
THAT THE REASON GEORGE FLOYD IS
DEAD IS BECAUSE MR. CHAUVIN’S
HEART WAS TOO SMALL.
>> NEIL?
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, YOU KNOW,
IT WAS SUCH A PRIVILEGE TO BE
WITH THIS EXTRAORDINARY GROUP OF
PEOPLE.
THIS WAS A GROUP OF A LISTERS
THROUGH AND THROUGH WHO DIDN’T
ACT LIKE A LISTERS, THAT WE ALL
HELPED EACH OTHER.
I THINK THERE YOU JUST SEE A
GOOD EXAMPLE OF LAWYERS IN
WHICH, YOU KNOW THIS RHETORIC
AND EMOTIONAL STUFF THROUGHOUT,
THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF PEOPLE
SAYING, YOU SHOULD BE SILENT FOR
9 MINUTES AND 29 SECONDS IN THE
CLOSING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
YOU KNOW, IT WAS JUST THE FACTS.
AT THE VERY END, I THINK YOU SAW
THAT ONE INSTANCE OF RHETORIC
WHICH I THOUGHT WAS SPORNT
BECAUSE IT DID CAPTURE IN JUST A
COUPLE SENTENCES WHAT THE TRIAL
WAS ALL ABOUT AND THE TRIAL IS
ONE VICTORY.
IT IS AN IMPORTANT VICTORY.
BUT AS WE ARE SEEING NOW,
INCIDENT AFTER INCIDENT, EVEN
AFTER THE TRIAL, IT IS JUST A
VICTORY.
IT CAN BE THE SPRING BOARD TO
DOING MORE.
AND I THINK ALL OF US, IT
DOESN’T MATTER WHAT COLOR YOU
ARE, WHAT POLITICS YOU HAVE,
HAVE TO RECOGNIZE SOMETHING HAS
GONE OFF THE RAILS WHEN IT COMES
TO SOME POLICE OFFICERS.
NOT ALL POLICE OFFICERS BUT
SOME.
AND THAT WILL REQUIRE REFORM AND
THE GEORGE FLOYD ACT IS A PLACE
TO START.
>> YEAH.
AND AS YOU SAY, IT IS A TRAGIC
AND SAD ASPECT OF WHERE WE ARE,
BUT NONETHELESS WHERE WE ARE
THAT WE HAVE THIS MAJOR PIECE OF
LEGISLATION WE’RE DISCUSSING
WITH OUR COSPOBNSOR HERE ON THE
SHOW THAT’S NAMED OF HIM.
HIS DEATH AND LOSS EXISTS
REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENED WITH
THE TRIAL.
YET, THERE ARE CALLS TO DO