Distortions in Bible and Torah The viewpoint of the Quran
[Hasan Ilyas] The question with which I want to start today’s session is this:
As we read the Quran and survey the inventory of beliefs,
we realize that having faith on the earlier revealed books and believing that
they have been sent down by Allah is necessary for us.
In the Muslim culture or society, however, the scholars claim that all the books –
Torah, Psalms, and the Gospels – have been tampered with and
entire topics have been altered.
Thus, they must not be referred to.
Nor should they be read directly [as God’s Word].
My question to you is this: When the Quran says that the Jews came
to the Prophet (pbuh) and ask him to decide among them
according to the Torah and the Gospel.
If these texts were distorted and altered, why does the Quran refer to them?
And the second thing is: Usually we hear that Moses (pbuh) was given the Torah.
The Quran just says Moses (pbuh) was given the Book.
It is not clear.
How can we determine that the Book revealed to Moses (pbuh) was indeed Torah?
And some people also say that the Book revealed to Moses (pbuh) had been lost.
In that case, why does the Quran accept the existent Torah that the Jews
have compiled as the real Torah?
[Javed Ahmad Ghamidi] No, the Quran is absolutely clear in this matter that all –
Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospels – all are from Allah.
And the Quran also mentions these books in the same sense: that those books
are extant and their followers read and recite them.
In fact, in praise of the People of the Book,
the Quran says that there are such people among them who recite
Allah’s word day and night.
Now, obviously, those people were not reciting the Quran.
They would recite the Torah or the Psalms.
And the Christians recite the Gospels. Quran gives references from the Torah.
It mentions the Torah and, at times, it says: we have explicated this point and
if indeed, you are truthful in this matter "Faa'tu bit-toraat"
then go and look into the Torah.
In fact, the Quran instructs people, as long as you do not accept guidance
of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), until then, if you are a believer of the Torah,
then you must follow the law of the Torah.
And if you are a believer of the Gospels, you must follow
the guidance of the Gospels.
At no point does the Quran claim that these books have been altered completely
and they are no longer the revealed books.
However, the Quran does insist that, at certain places,
the meanings have been altered/distorted.
In other words, say, the purport was changed, or an explanation
was inserted, etc. The manner in which Quran, the Book of Allah,
is preserved in its real language.
In other words, we don’t just have a translation of the Quran.
We possess the original text. And it is also translated.
And those translations are read in the same manner.
In our society, if someone unfamiliar with Arabic seeks guidance,
he would certainly read a translation of the Quran.
And the scholars too, when they try to understand something obviously,
they describe the laws of Shariah based on what they have understood.
Thus, these books are extant.
And even today they are included in the compendium of the Bible.
These books have a history and because of that history, today,
we cannot claim to have access to their original text.
This is the position we ought to take: we cannot make any claims
regarding their original text.
The extant materials are, therefore, translations.
The translations are available in many languages.
And ever since we have had these books, it as rarely been the case
that there has been a major revision.
The types of errors that translations are prone to are clearly visible
in the existing texts. And the types of errors usually committed in the process
of transmitting a tradition are clearly visible as well.
So, these are the types of errors that have been committed over time.
However, the distortions that are usually mentioned in our tradition
are not connected to these texts per se.
They are connected, in reality, with the Biblical history.
In other words, the Bible we see today is not, in and of itself, a revealed book.
It contains some revealed books.
In reality, it is an encyclopedia of the whole Israelite and, later,
Christian history. The book recounts the whole history.
In fact, it recounts the history from the beginning of the world.
If, for instance, you take the books of our own historians, like
Ibn Kathir’s Al-Bidaya wa’l-Nihaya, or Ibn Asir’s Al-Kamil, or Ibn Khaldun’s Tarikh,
you would see that these books too begin at the beginning of the world.
Thus, in the Bible, they have chronicled the history
from the beginning of the world.
On the occasion of Abraham’s (pbuh) apostleship,
the Bible details Abraham’s (pbuh) circumstances.
Later on, when Torah is revealed, it is included in the text.
Afterwards, the different scriptures of the Prophets
are also compiled in the Bible.
Later on, when the Psalms are revealed, they too become a part of the Bible.
Same is the case with the Gospels.
And after that, if you look,
Just as the Prophet’s (pbuh) Companions, Jesus (pbuh) too had disciples,
called the Apostles.
And after the Gospels, you also find their Epistles in the Bible.
It ends with the Revelation of John the, Divine, which, although it is a revelation
of Jesus (pbuh), but it is narrated with reference to John.
So, it is the whole history.
It recounts a number of [critical] events. It is a book of history.
It relates the incidents involving Lot (pbuh), Noah (pbuh), etc.
It also includes certain vile things as well.
And similarly, the historiographical part of the Bible, like the Books of Kings and
the Books of Samuel contain certain things that defy logic.
These are the things that people are usually referring to in the backdrop
of distortions in the Bible.
Reading the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospels enlivens your faith.
The message of these books is still the same.
In certain places however, the explanatory annotations have become indistinguishable
from the original text. These are the problematic texts.
On the whole, the Quran affirms these books.
It makes references to them.
It directs our attention toward reading them.
It bases its arguments and proofs on these books.
All these things are explicit in the Quran.
Thus, the general impression that has diffused into the people is totally wrong.
[Ilyas] Ghamidi Sahib, let me ask you a few more additional questions
about the same topic.
It is argued that when we talk of faith in this backdrop, where we do not
have access to the original manuscripts, should we not say that we believe in the
original books that Allah had revealed.
However, we cannot be absolutely certain that the existing books are the same
as revealed by Allah, because of translation, etc.
So, why should we believe in these (existent) books?
Instead, we should, on a mental level, believe in those books that were revealed.
And if, at some point, we happen to find the real manuscript, then we would read it
But the existing texts are just the translations into which historical records
and other distortions are melded. How are these books relevant for us?
[Ghamidi] It is not correct that you have to believe in these books.
You believe, say, in the Torah, or the Gospels, or the Psalms.
You adopt the attitude that these were the Books of Allah that were revealed
upon these Prophets and they contained guidance from Allah.
This is the meaning of faith.
Afterwards, the question of locating these books is a problem of history.
For that, the original books would be looked into and examined.
They would be examined in light of the information about and
the references to these books found in the Quran.
And I have told you that the Quran, on the whole,
confirms the same books that are extant today.
The Quran directs our attention toward these books.
It makes references to these books.
It states, for instance, in Psalms, We have written this and this after
describing a certain matter.
Or that, We have declared this in the Torah.
We have stated so and so in the Gospels.
Among other things, the Quran also mentions the predictions about the
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in these books.
And it declares that there is light and guidance in the Torah.
The Quran maintains the same position about the Gospels as well.
And as I have told you, in Surah al-Maidah
addressing the Jews and Christians of that time, the believers in Torah and Injeel,
the Quran states that these books contain Allah’s Command.
Indakumut-tauraat fii-hi hukm’ullah.
The Torah that is extant with them, Inda-kum, 'that you possess'
contains the Command of Allah.
It does not say that the Torah in our minds contains the Command of Allah.
Thus, Allah's guidance and commands exist in these books.
However, along with this, the Quran underscores the distortions in meaning
that have emerged in these texts because of certain incorrect interpretations
by the Jewish scholars and certain other people.
For this reason, the careful scholars mention the distortion of meaning.
It means that at certain points the subject matter was altered,
or the context was excised out, or at times the exegeses were made into
a necessary part of the divine command, etc.
Things like these have happened.
Our faith is that these were and are the Books of Allah.
At the same time, we also recognize the historical reality that the
original text of the books is not extant.
The books we possess are translations.
The human intellect, obviously, intervenes in translations.
Just as you cannot replace the Quran with a translation of the Quran.
So, all these things are kept in mind.
However, they still contain the command and guidance from Allah.
The Quran tells us as much.
And they should be read with the same regard.
However, the last word is reserved for the Quran.
And even from a purely intellectual perspective,
Quran should be the ultimate authority because it is the last book
in the Abrahamic tradition and it is the only book that is extant in the
original text in which it was revealed by Allah.
Quran has stated this as well in
Surah al-Maidah: this book is muhayminan allai’hi.
In other words, this book is a criterion for all the earlier guidance from Allah.
It is the conclusive book. It has the last authority.
So, if you study these books with this principle in mind,
you’ll find light in them.
If you want to get a sense of the applied meanings of Allah’s Oneness,
you must read the Torah.
Obviously, the Quran does not discuss these matters in the same way.
You’ll learn from the Torah distortions regarding the concept of Allah’s Oneness
that develop when a Muslim society becomes corrupt.
Similarly, if you want to know about the problems created by [different] sciences
as well as by the priests in the understanding of religion,
and what becomes of religious interpretations when a Muslim nation
is corrupted, you should read the Gospels.
The Sermon of the Mount in the Gospels refreshes one’s faith.
Read it. In reality, it is a complete refutation of contemporary Christianity.
And insofar as the basic beliefs of Christianity –
Christ’s divinity, his suffering for expatiation of the sins of humanity,
and the abolition of the Law – are concerned,
you won’t find any trace of them in the Torah or the Gospels.
Those books narrate the same religion that has been the religion
of all the Prophets since the beginning.
In this backdrop, the Quran, while referring to the teachings of
all the Prophets, says to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh):
Fa bi hudahum iqtadih you too must follow the same guidance.
[Ilyas] Ghamidi Sahib, you gave a detailed explanation.
I was about to ask the same question: in the context of the overall structure
of their religion, we say that we do not find any distortions in the holy text
present in the extant books.
But when it comes to the basic tenets of the contemporary Christianity,
like the divinity of Christ, Trinity, or the abolition of the Law, etc.,
(You certainly have great familiarity with these topics)
they must be grounding their arguments upon something from the Bible?
Especially about things like Christ being the Son of God, etc.
[Ghamidi] Well, people draw such arguments justifying all sorts of
misguidance from the Quran as well. Don’t we Muslims do it?
Is there anything whose source people do not read back into the Quran?
In such instances, the same things become the basis of conjecture that
I have discussed in a prior session.
For example, there may be a violation of the rules of language,
or people become bent upon interpreting the Mutashaabihaat of the text,
or the distinction between the literal and the metaphorical speech
is not kept in mind, etc.
And, at times, such practices lead to errors of interpretation and deviation.
This happens with every book in the world.
As long as there are human beings, such errors would continue to exist.
Otherwise, the original books state the case of the religion properly.
And as I have said, there are just two problems with these books.
One, they are translations.
And, obviously, the translator’s understanding is incorporated
into the translation. Therefore, they cannot be called the literal Word of God.
And what is the second thing?
The second thing is, at certain places, annotations and exegeses have,
through translation, become mixed up with the original text.
At times when we translate the Quran, according to our understanding
we add certain things in brackets.
If we remove the brackets, they would become a part of the original text.
In this case, there won’t be any problems even if we remove the brackets because
we possess the original text.
And you can always compare the translation with the original.
This, however, is not the case with the other revealed books.
So, these are the problems that have arisen about those books.
Otherwise, all kinds of deviance can be justified using the text itself.
[Ilyas] Alright, Ghamidi Sahib. The last question about this topic.
A practical example came to my mind.
Maulana Farahi even wrote a book with the title Zabiih Koun? (Who was sacrificed?
And it was translated by Maulana Islahi.
Tell us, if an error was committed in the Bible or its translation
And we also know that the Israelites had a peculiar animosity for
the Ishmaelites because of which they have distorted a lot of historical records too.
So, is it even possible to detect and correct and
properly elucidate these errors?
For example, Maulana Farahi points out, in the context of sacrifice,
the Bible talks of the only son and, historically, it is not possible
that it was referring to Isaac (pbuh). So, can the errors be detected?
[Ghamidi] The incident of Ishmael’s (pbuh) sacrifice and the incident of
settling of Mecca by Abraham (pbuh) and all similar discussions that are related
to the genealogy and the apostleship of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh),
are mentioned in the Bible.
They are not mentioned in the Torah. Nor are they in the Psalms or Gospels.
In other words, the discussion that you referred to and on which Imam Farahi
wrote his book: whether Ishmael (pbuh) or Isaac (pbuh) was the sacrificed one.
It is not a discussion in the Torah.
Nor is it a discussion of the Psalms and the Gospels.
It is also not mentioned in the Book of Prophets.
I mentioned before that the Bible is, in fact, a compilation of different texts.
It is a book of history like we also have our books of history.
They have inserted these books of history within the revealed texts!
So, within the compilation called the Bible, the Torah consists of about
seventy or eighty pages. The Gospels are around fifty to sixty pages.
However, the whole book, around fifteen to sixteen hundred pages, is,
in reality, a historical account of the Israelites.
Thus, this whole discussion pertains to history.
Earlier researchers too have been discussing the historiographical errors
of the Israelites, wherever they have been committed.
And Imam Farahi too, through his own books and as well as by a careful analysis
of the Biblical text, clarified the contradictions regarding
the question of sacrifice.
There is no doubt that the book you mentioned
is a highly readable book. It is an extraordinary book.
In the book, Imam Farahi showed through clear arguments that even the Bible itself
testifies to the fact that Ishmael (pbuh) was the sacrificed one.
And he also pointed out the contradictions and inconsistencies produced in the
narrative by inserting Issac’s (pbuh) name instead of Ishmael’s (pbuh).
These are the things that he stated.
However, it is the historiographic part of the Bible.
It is not the revealed part of the text.
In other words, this is not the revealed or divinely inspired Word of Allah.
Nobody claims that about it.
It is a book similar to Ibn Kathir’s Al-Bidaya wa’l-Nihaya
or to Ibn Khaldun’s Tarikh.
However, the revealed texts are also found within them.