-Welcome to the show. -Thank you.
-I'm so excited to have you here. -It's nice to be here.
I'll-I'll tell you a little story. A lot of people don't
know this, but, uh, there is the CNN that America watches.
-Mm-hmm. -And then there is the CNN
that the world watches. And in the CNN
-that America watches... -It's a parallel universe.
Yeah, it is a parallel universe. And on one,
they just bring on people to talk
but not know anything...
and in the other, you are one of the anchors.
I am such a huge fan of what you do. Welcome...
-welcome to
to be here, and great to be in Cleveland.
-Is it great to be in Cleveland? -(cheering, applause) -Yes, yes!
-Yes. -Is it great?
It is. It is, because,
honestly, people are so nice.
-They... Can I... Yeah, and that's true. -So nice.
(cheering, applause)
Some of the nicest people I have ever come across, yes.
I am literally walking down the street with my colleagues
and a guy in a pickup truck stops
and offers us a ride
and gives us a card with his name on it.
It's fantastic.
-Doesn't happen in many other places. -I wonder
if this is like a scam, 'cause that happened to me as well.
-No, I was... -Hang on.
-I was at the corner, I was... -What was his name?
No, no, no, it was a woman, actually. Someone, uh, I was
at the corner and I was standing at a... And then someone came,
she was like, "Do you guys want a ride? Do you need to go..."
-I was like, "This is..." -It's genuine friendliness.
-It really is. -And the thing is you're sort of skeptical,
because you don't get that in most places you visit.
Yes, that's true, and, uh, also, because, uh,
the Republican National Convention is here, so...
-Yeah. -You-You've been on the ground, though.
You're doing your show from here, you've been on the ground.
What have you seen? What are the craziest things
or what are some of the scariest or saddest things
you've come across?
Well, it's a whole different kind of war zone.
You know, I do most of my work in Iraq
-and places like that, Afghanistan. -Yes.
Um, it's-it's a war zone because there is so much division.
I mean, you know, you go to these things
and you watch and you listen to the speeches,
and I'm thinking, "How is one going to unite after this?"
And I really do believe that, uh,
you can't just sort of criminalize
political differences.
You know, like Chr-Chris Christie
and his "I don't know what guilty or innocent"
-or "lock her up" or whatever, -Yes. Yeah, yeah.
and I'm thinking, "How do you actually govern?
"How do you bring a party together? How do you bring
a country together? How do you bring a world together?"
Well, you have to find some common ground,
and, um, I think that's in short supply right now,
not just here but around the world as well.
And so I'm just hoping that at some point
we can all just get along, as Rodney King once said.
(cheering and applause)
Rodney King
and, uh, surprisingly, the Joker.
Yes, the Joker, who is a more measured man in this climate.
-Mm-hmm. -Why can't we all just get along?
If, um... if you're looking at this election--
you're someone who is...
traveling the world, you have an illustrious career
as a news anchor who has seen elections everywhere,
you've seen everything from coups to peaceful protests--
do you see what is happening in America
happening anywhere else in the world?
-Can you draw parallels? -Look, I think
all of a sudden the West is in a...
in a truly historic moment right now.
I think that what's happening in the United States
is reflected, to an extent, in Europe.
You saw what happened in-in Great Britain recently,
-with Brexit. Nobody actually thought -Yes.
that this very sensible "keep calm and carry on" country
would actually, you know, fling itself off a cliff,
as some people think.
You know, there are many people who believe in Brexit,
so, you know, we have to report the facts.
-But... -If-if I may interject there,
that-that's interesting, because you wrote about something
that-that really connected with me,
and that was in and around the conversation
-of neutrality as a journalist. -Mm-hmm.
And you came out, and you were speaking to the idea
-that journalists shouldn't be neutral... -Mm-hmm.
...which was an interesting take I'd never heard before.
Well, I-I've come up with a...
with a sort of a slogan right now,
because I'm about frustrated at all of this.
So I now say, "Truthful, not neutral."
-There's a difference. -Yes.
Truthful is bringing the truth.
Neutral can be creating a false equivalence
between this faction...
(applause and cheering)
I'm really glad you agree,
because it's to you who I'm reporting the news,
and I really want you to know
that I go out of my way to bring you the truth.
And the truth is actually there.
You can find the truth.
And there are facts, and there are figures.
And then there are other things.
-And you can't conflate the two. -Yes.
Or equiv... or create an equivalence there.
I learned that in Bosnia, Trevor.
I covered the Bosnia war,
-and there was one side that was massacring another side. -Yeah.
And we were expected to somehow create a moral equivalence,
and there wasn't any.
And so, in order to be truthful, I had to tell the truth,
which was that one side was being massacred by another side.
And that's how you get to an end, to a resolution,
when you actually have the truth.
Now, um, you've also spent
extensive periods in the Middle East.
You've covered everything in the Middle East,
-and even, I guess, in parts of North Africa, as well. -Yup.
-Looking at what happened in Turkey... -Mm.
...you are going, "What is happening in this place?"
Everyone was watching, saying,
-"Is it a coup? Is it not a coup?" -Yeah.
The president came out and said, it's not a coup
because the generals are not involved in this,
but there are military personnel
who are trying to take over the country.
The coup dies down, and now, all of a sudden,
it seems, from some sides,
maybe the president staged the coup?
And there's WikiLeaks and...
-You're an expert. -Yeah.
I don't get to talk to experts on this often.
What is happening in that world?
I think that little bit could be a bit of a conspiracy theory.
But I do think that, look, all of a sudden,
everything seems to be coming to a head.
You had that horrible ISIS attack in Nice.
And barely 24 hours later,
you had this attempted coup in Turkey.
What I think is what happened is that there were
a good number of people within the military
who decided that they didn't like President Erdogan anymore,
for whatever reason: A, is he becoming too much
of an Islamist president?
The military is fiercely secular.
-Uh, is he becoming too autocratic? -Yeah.
From
this was a plot, uh, you know, sort of... sort of inspired
by a guy who's sitting here in Pennsylvania.
But what's happening now is that A, the people came out,
and they refused to allow the coup to take place.
That, I think, is a triumph for democracy.
-Because the people stopped it, yes. -The people stopped it.
They really did. He called the people out,
and they came out, the president did.
But, you know, there's a massive crackdown now.
You know, 50,000 people are being either detained,
uh, suspended from their jobs, or under investigation,
including members of the press.
So I think we wait to see how this plays out.
When you see something play out like that,
a president like Erdogan, who many have said is autocratic,
many have said, you know, denounces free speech,
and, I mean, he's locked people up, he's arrested them
for making jokes about him and so on,
and then you see someone like Donald Trump,
who has said he wants to get rid of the libel laws,
he wants to go out and go after journalists
or satirists who say things about him,
and the people support both of these people.
Do you see a path whereby Donald Trump
could get to that same place?
'Cause Americans always go: It can't happen here,
-Yeah. -let me tell you something,
-Mm-hmm. -it won't happen here, okay?
We're different, okay?
Yeah, I think that that's true. That is true.
This is a democracy with a First Amendment
and a very, very, you know,
closely guarded freedom of expression
and freedom of the press.
But it is guarded because it is fragile,
and we have to make sure that nothing and no one
can assault this basic right that makes America strong,
this First Amendment
and all its amazing constitutional protection.
(applause)
I could sit and talk to you for hours,
but, uh... I will have to watch you on television.
-And I'll watch you. -Thank you so much for being here.
-Thank you. Thank you. -I really appreciate it.
Amanpour
Check your local listings. Christiane Amanpour, everybody.