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- Curious for you guys on these shows.
What was the sort of biggest debate,
conversation you had in the writer's room about,
either in the writer's room,
or with executives about getting something to screen?
- The big debate we had was like,
do black people call the cops?
Because, in the show,
I mean that's a very tricky.
- Do they trust you to answer that question?
- I mean, well I will say it kind of
came up in the room a little bit,
which was predominately African American,
and maybe sometimes things can be generational
but there is an element
and look I don't have a black exec
on the studio or network side
and so,
there's a level of trust that they,
I think,
they kind of have to have for me
but there's an element of,
there's a crime committed in the pilot.
A character's younger brother is shot and killed by someone.
And people,
the question then becomes,
does he,
obviously in the hood,
it's like you retaliate
you go find that person that killed your person
and you kill them.
But then the question became does he call the cops?
So, he is dating someone as I like to say,
from the right side of the tracks.
Who says,
"maybe you should do that,"
but, I think for him,
and we gave him,
ultimately we gave him the line of saying,
"I'm not about to call the cops.
"the cops are not about to do nothing,
"I'll figure this out."
And also too, there's a very complicated relationship
that African American people have with
police for obvious reasons.
- Yeah, you fucked up.
I really hope it haunts you
for the rest of your fucking life.
You see that kid over there?
You better not touch him.
You hear me?
No more fuck ups.
- You took the debate from the writers room
and just put it in the story. - Yeah.
Yeah, that's cool. - We could put it in
his girlfriend's mouth
we could have them,
because there was a writer in our room,
who basically said,
"Well if I'm in trouble,
"I'd call the cops." - Yeah I'm going to.
- But I think for a lot of us
we're like,
"Nah,"
like we wouldn't do that
we want to figure that out on our own."
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- I mean, I think you've said,
and I'm quoting you here,
"The hardest thing about being a black writer in this town
"is having to pitch your black story to white executives,"
which you alluded to earlier.
And I'm curious how,
whether it was this story or was it another story,
how they would be received differently
if that room was populated by a bunch of black executives?
- Well and that's the interesting thing too
because usually it's predominately white execs
or there's the often,
the poor token black exec they bring into the room.
(laughing)
Or whoever they can find in the office,
just to say,
"Come on, we got a black person coming in here
"we want to look good."
I think you know,
and also too, I think you guys remember like
that black exec can either be your friend or a foe.
- [Lacey] Why?
- Because they don't want to come off like,
"Oh, I'm only vying for the black show."
They don't want to be the black exec.
And then other times too,
again, if their black experience is different from yours,
if there's a black person who grew up,
maybe in Connecticut or had a different,
went to private school
and I'm in there pitching the Chi.
They're gonna go, well that wasn't my experience
I've seen that experience of black people before.
I don't want to green light a show that's gonna
kinda tell that story again.
Even though obviously I want to be nuanced
and very specific.
But yeah, I mean the truth is,
going into pitch is hard, period.
But what I think people don't realize when you're someone
who is othered.
Because it's not just with black people,
but if you're a trans person,
if you're someone who maybe has a certain disability
or maybe if you have autism,
and you want to come in and tell a story about that.
If you're sitting with people who
that's not their experience,
You know, yeah,
if you have something that's phenomenal,
and they can just kind of relate and get it,
they'll do it but often times there's a level
of not understanding and not being able to relate.
So they're like,
and the even the story could be great
and unique, and specific,
but they're like, we don't get it.
Or, I don't know that world
because also too,
you gotta remember, the top execs,
the people that green light with like power,
they live in Brentwood, they live there,
their kids go to private school, you know,
it's Big Little Lies.
So it's like, if you're not pitching Big Little Lies,
sometimes they're like,
"Huh, I don't always get it,"
or they say yes, and then try to make it more
relatable to them.
- Make it Big Little Lies.
- Exactly, so now you got,
although I love Big Little Lies
because I got to be a fly on the wall of a world
that I'm not a part of. - Yeah.
- But to me,
having the opportunity,
I'm very blessed in that the execs at Showtime
and obviously Fox 21 said,
"Yeah, this may not be our experience
"but there's something about this that sort of
"has a heartbeat that even we can't deny,"
but that's what I often tell people sometimes
when you are othered,
you better come in there with something so phenomenal
and so amazing
that even though it's from a world that isn't theirs,
there's something about it that they can connect to,
there has to be.
There has to be the universal law,
where it's about a person just trying to survive
or trying to live
and even if those people don't look like them
or come from the same walk of life,
they still can say,
"I get it,
"I want to watch that."
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