>> And here with us today, we have Scott Smith who is a NASA nutritionist.
He's here to talk with us a little about, not one but two,
experiments that are currently undergoing on the--
aboard the International Space Station with the crew members there.
One of those experiments is known as nutrition that actually looks at how our body changes
in a microgravity of space and also Pro-K that looks at diet
and how that diet can actually mitigate bone loss.
Welcome Scott.
Thanks for coming.
>> Thanks.
It's great to be here.
>> So let's start now just talking about nutrition first.
I understand that nutrition is actually been one of the studies that's been going
on for now quite a while since Expedition 14?
>>That's correct.
We started back in late 2006 on Expedition 14.
>> Okay. And so just walk me through.
What exactly is a nutrition and what are we doing with that?
>> Well the premise behind in nutrition experiment was
that when we'd launched equipment aboard the Space Station,
allowed us to collect biological samples that is we needed a centrifuge, spin the samples
and process them, then we need a freezer to store the samples for long periods of time.
The question then became, "What would you do?"
And what we first set out to do was
to better understand how nutrition changes over the course of space flight.
We had collected a lot of samples before and after flight.
But with samples collected before and after flight, you don't know how you got there.
So if you see a significant drop in the measurement of something after flight,
you don't know what that change look like over the course of six months.
>> Okay, so we start with something--
a baseline first, before flight and then
that way we can measure the differences in the space as well.
>> That's correct.
>> So explain to me what are we measuring?
>> What we do is we collect blood sample and urine samples before, during and after flight,
then we measure probably 40 to 50 different things in those samples.
We look at our nutritional markers, things like vitamins and minerals.
We also look at the number of hormones and regulatory factors.
We're also looking at things like bone markers that tell us about what's going
on with bone and muscle and other systems.
>> Okay. And so when you're talking about-- you said blood and urine,
do we do any body mass measurement?
I do see some of that.
I don't know if that's involved in this study at all.
>> We do indeed share this data.
The body mass data, obviously an important picture of what's going of nutrition overall,
But clearly the goal of this experiment, if you will, is the blood and the urine.
>> Okay. And is there are any-- so I know again we're talking
about blood samples and urine samples.
Are there any other variables that we're looking at that may help--
give us more information for this particular study?
>> The other thing we're trying with this experiment is dietary intake
and the crews fill out-- nominally they fill out a food frequency questionnaire once a week
that allows us to track dietary intake of key nutrients.
That's what we call an operational protocol where we report back to the flight surgeon,
usually that same week of-- look someone is not eating enough or not drinking enough
so that we can make those changes realtime.
>> Okay.
>> And then looking at those data become very important in terms of understanding--
we know what the diet-- what the dietary intake was but we also need to look
at how the bodies is haling those nutrients.
>> And what do we hoping to accomplish from the study?
>> Well there're a lot of things.
In short, we're trying to understand the nutritional needs
of the body during space fight.
Long duration space fight is a challenge.
And just like-- let's go back to the sailing missions when we first left Europe.
When you're on a ship for a long period of time, you have to make sure
that you have the nutrition exactly right.
Scurvy is a great example of a disease that occurs when you don't get enough vitamin C.
And if you look back, again, through history that ravaged crews and what we need
to make sure is when we send crews off the planet for six months that we set them up there
as healthy as can be and we keep them there.
But even more important when we look to send folks off to other points of exploration,
making sure that we know what their body needs, that food has the right things in it is going
to be very, very critical to make sure
that we keep the crews healthy and bring them home healthy.
>> It sounds to me like I need to go to space because I'll probably would come back healthier.
>> Well it's funny you should mention that because there're many crews
with the exercise protocol we have on board right now and with good dietary intake,
we have seen a new number of crew members
who literally have come back and better shape than they went.
So this is not easy.
It's not easy, but it can be done.
>> Well, you know, they say you are what you eat.
So we're going to move on to Pro-K, you know.
So basically we're looking at a big bowl of K, so, and a piece of chocolate cake.
No. But in all seriousness, the Pro-K is actually looking at how diet
and what we eat can actually help mitigate bone loss.
It's not only the exercise on board the station, but it's also what we're eating.
And I originally would think, you know, calcium when I think bone loss.
But that's not really what this is, is it?
>> That's correct.
And folks have looked at calcium and as I would say the easy answers didn't work
that providing extra calcium won't fix bone loss during flight.
We do make sure the crews get enough calcium because calcium is important.
But that's not the only trigger.
And what we found in ground-based studies is that the ratio of different nutrients
in the diet can affect your bone response and what we're testing with Pro-K is just that.
And what we're looking at is the ratio of animal protein in the diet to their--
the amount of potassium in the diet.
And what happens is that ratio affects the acid-based balance in your diet.
That is more animal protein, more red meat will lead to more acid
when it's broken down in your body.
And that acid, the way your body protects yourself from that acid is to break down bone.
And there's a couple of ways you can counteract that.
One is by consuming less of those acid-producing components.
The other is to consume more base-producing components,
and those are things we find in like fruits and vegetables.
And those are fruits that rich in potassium which is what we use potassium
as the other half of that equation.
>> Okay. So, protein, potassium, Pro-K?
>> Absolutely.
>> Got it.
Okay. So, in this-- are there any supplements involved like vitamins or anything
like that or is this strictly diet?
>> This is strictly diet.
And what we're doing with the Pro-K experiment is for four-day sessions.
We worked with the crews ahead of time to plan out a four-day menu.
It is either high animal protein, the potassium ratio; or low.
And they'll consume that diet for four days and at the end of those four days,
they'll collect blood and collect urine samples that we will then look
at to see how those makers going to affect it.
>> I think we have a couple of photos.
We can throw this up here now.
Actually, Don Pettit who have been participating in the Pro-K
and the nutrition, there he is here.
And he is actually working.
It looks like he's got a couple of samples in his hand and he's putting it
into the minus 80 degree laboratory freezer.
>> That's correct.
And, yes. And his left-hand there, he's got gloves on because that freezer is very cold.
It sits at about minus 96 degrees C even though we call it a minus 80 freezer.
In that mesh bag there has syringes that have small amounts of urine that he took
from his-- from his last urine collection.
>> And then here's just another image of some more sample.
>> That's correct.
I think that one is actually a step before
and you see him putting the syringes into that mesh bag.
>> Oh, I see.
>> You can see in the bottom left corner, there the door to the MELFI is open
and what he'll do is pull out one of those, what they called doers from the drawers
in that freezer and the samples will go in there and wait until they bring him home.
>> Okay. And again, the MELFI is the minus 80 degree-laboratory freezer that is used
to store biological samples such as what?
He is doing for the study to that required refrigeration
for returning to Earth for later analysis.
When they are returned to Earth those sample, they are actually brought back here
to Johnson Space Center, is that correct?
>> That's correct.
Ultimately, they're analyzed.
Most of the analyses are done in our lab in the Nutritional Biochemistry Lab here in Houston.
>> Okay.
>> And we-- up until now, we brought all our samples home in the shuttle.
So we've sent folks-- the team out to the landing sites,
retrieve them when they're demanifested from the shell after the crew
and then we bring it back here as quick as we can.
>> Okay. And so talk to me a little about what--
what can you tell me about the findings from either one of these.
And I know that there is also a blog and we can put that out here for you as well.
Go to blog.nasa.gov and you can check out the--
a blog that this here is When Finding Nothing Means Discovering Something
with a blog about some of the findings.
I think this is the most recent entry that was made about these studies.
But go ahead and talk to us a little about some of the findings that you guys are--
>> Well, the Pro-K experiment, first, is a little bit newer.
So we don't have any published findings from that just yet.
The nutrition experiment as you said, we've been doing that for several years and we've had--
we've had a number of key findings so far.
The blog you pointed out there talks about two things we found that didn't changed.
>> Okay.
>> One of those-- One of the things that we found that didn't change is vitamin K
and the other thing that we found that didn't change is testosterone.
And the reason both those findings are important is that earlier studies
and earlier related studies had suggested that both of those things might serve
as viable countermeasures for bone loss during space flight.
And what we found in more detailed studies with more subjects,
flying on long duration missions is that neither of those things changed.
Again what that tells us is that we don't need to pursue giving vitamin K supplements
to counteract bone loss for example or injecting people
with testosterone to stop muscle loss for example.
And what it tells us, it helps us drive where to go next.
So even though technically we didn't find any change during flight,
in this case that's very important and very good news.
>> Um-hmm.
Well, that's very fascinating.
And actually it seems to me-- I mean I can't imagine how we can't get any
of these finding wouldn't actually apply to us here on earth.
>> Absolutely.
And which leads into one of the other key findings that we've reported on is
that we found a significant relationship between the amount of fish people consume on orbit
and the amount of bone that they lost after flight.
And what we found is that the crews that ate more fish lost less bone.
And the reason we think that is-- we think there're few things there.
But primarily the fish are rich in omega-3 fatty acids and we've done other studies
on the ground both bedrest studies with humans.
We've done subculture studies to show
that omega-3 fatty acids can help to reduce bone breakdown.
>> Yeah.
>> And what we found in the astronaut is that again
if you eat more fish it will reduce bone loss during flight and the implications for that
for people, for everybody here on earth are obvious so it--
>> Well, for those who are not fish eaters, can they take the supplement?
>> That's the first questions I was getting.
And the short answer is we don't know yet.
And I think somewhere there's got to be middle point.
But it's important also to realize that when you're eating fish,
you're not eating something else, which gets back to the red meat thing.
>> Right.
>> So, you know, as a nutritionist,
we always push that if you can have good diet, it's better for you.
The idea that you can eat a bad diet and take a pill and that'll fix it, well,
that turns to be what most people would rather do and the body doesn't work that easily.
>> And so if I've taken the pill and not exercising.
>> Absolutely.
It's not easy as it sounds.
>> Okay. Well thank you so much.
I think that's all the time we have today.
But I really appreciate you coming over and talking with us again.
That was-- This is Scott Smith here with us today here
in the International Space Station Flight Control Room with the orbit team
who is overseeing the activities on board the International Space Station.
Scott, thank you very much for coming today.
>> Thanks again, my pleasure.
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