HOWIE: MORE THAN 100 POLITICO
STAFFERS ARE STILL UPSET AND
DEMANDING AN YOU APOLOGY FROM
THE EDITOR AT THE WEBSITE LED
CONSERVATIVE AUTHOR BEN SHAPIRO
GUEST WRITE ONE DAY OF THE
COLUMNS, WHEN CHRIS HAYES AND
DON LEMON TOOK TURNS AND PLANS
TO FEATURE OTHER CONSERVATIVES
WERE DROPPED.
JOINING US NOW TO TALK ABOUT
JOURNALISM AND FREE SPEECH,
JONAH GOLDBERG, EDITOR AND FOX
NEWS CONTRIBUTOR.
WHY ARE THE POLITICO STAFFERS
STILL UPSET TWO WEEKS LATER OVER
BEN SHAPIRO, AND LIBERALS
FILLING IN AS WELL.
>> I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF
THINGS GOING ON HERE.
ONE IS -- I THINK THERE’S A
GENERATIONAL THING GOING ON
WHERE YOUNGER LIBERALS AND I
WOULD SAY YOUNGER CONSERVATIVES
ARE INTOLERANT OF DEFENDING
POINTS OF VIEW.
IN IS PLACES LIKE THE ATLANTIC,
WHERE SOMEONE HAD A JOB FOR A
DAY BEFORE THE YOUNGER STAFF
WENT INTO REVOLT, SOMETHING
SIMILAR HAPPENED AT POLITICO, A
LOT OF PEOPLE LIVE IN BUBBLES ON
BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE THESE
DAYS AND THE LAST THING THEY
WANT TO DO IS HAVE THEIR BUBBLE
PUNCTURED FROM WITHIN SO THEY
HAVE THE TAKEN TANTRUMS.
IT’S THE EXPORTATION OF TEMPER
TANTRUMS INTO NEWSROOMS.
HOWIE: THIS COMES FROM THE
FIRING OF AN EDITORIAL PAGE
EDITOR, SOME ARE CHEERING
TWITTER AND FACEBOOK FOR
CANCELING DONALD TRUMP’S
ACCOUNT.
IS THERE AN EMERGING ALLIANCE
BETWEEN BIG TECH AND SOME OF THE
MORE WOKE OR YOUNGER LIBERALS
WHO ARE OFFENDED BY HAVING TO
HEAR OR READ CONSERVATIVE VIEWS,
PARTICULARLY AT THEIR OWN
PUBLICATION.
>> IN A SENSE, YEAH.
IT’S CERTAINLY TRUE THAT BIG
TECH FIRMS, THE RANK AND FILE
ARE GOING TO BE LEFT-LEANING,
WOKE, WHATEVER LABEL WE WANT TO
PUT ON THEM.
THEIR I THINK STINGS ARE --
INSTINCTS ARE GOING TO CATCH
RIGHT WING TALK THAT THEY HATE
MORE QUICKLY THAN PROBLEMATIC
LEFT WING TALK.
THIS IS AN AMERICAN PROBLEM.
THERE IS A VAST AND THRIVING
RIGHT WING AND LEFT WING CAN CAN
CULTURE.
CERTAIN KINDS OF PEOPLE AT
CERTAIN INSTITUTIONS HAVE
DIFFERENT KIND OF CANCELING.
PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS A HUGE FAN
OF CANCELING PEOPLE.
HE TRIED HAVE ME FIRED FROM FOX
AND NATIONAL REVIEW BECAUSE HE
DIDN’T LIKE WHAT I WROTE.
THIS IS A PROBLEM WE HAVE IN
AMERICA OF WIDESPREAD
INTOLERANCE FOR DISAGREEMENT.
HOWIE: JUST TO FOLLOW UP, HE
PERSONALLY TRIED HAVE YOU FIRED
FROM THOSE TWO PLACES IN.
>> ON TWITTER.
I CAN REPORT THAT -- AS
PRESIDENT AND AS CANDIDATE,
EXPRESSED A BURNING DESIRE TO
NOT SEE ME ON FOX ANYMORE.
AND LOOK, THE OTHER PART OF IT
IS THAT -- HE DEFINITELY TRIED
TO HAVE ME FIRED FROM NATIONAL
REVIEW WHICH I LEFT A WHILE AGO.
HOWIE: LET ME JUMP IN.
I WANT TO BROADEN IT.
SPEAKING OF FOX, THERE ARE
LIBERALS AT MAJOR OUTLETS WHO
ARE SAYING CABLE OPERATORS
SHOULD DROP FOX NEWS OR FOX
SHOULDN’T BE ALLOWED TO VISIT.
WE KNOW THEY’RE NOT TALKING
ABOUT THE NEWS DIVISION, TALKING
ABOUT CERTAIN OPINION PEOPLE
WHOSE VIEWS RATHER THAN SAYING I
THINK THEY’RE WRONG AND HERE’S
WHY THEY WANT OFF THE AIR.
>> YEAH.
LOOK, I THINK THE IDEA OF
BRINGING BACK THE FAIRNESS
DOCTRINE IS IDIOTIC.
I THINK A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE
DON’T REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW THE
FAIRNESS DOCTRINE WORKED AND IT
DOESN’T APPLY TO CABLE ANYWAY.
BUT IT’S ABSOLUTELY TRUE.
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO SEE
FOX NUKED FROM ORBIT AND I THINK
THAT’S RIDICULOUS.
AT THE SAME TIME, IT SHOULD NOT
BE SURPRISING AND YOU’RE RIGHT
TO SINGLE OUT THE NEWS DIVISION
IS DIFFERENT, BUT IT SHOULD NOT
BE SURPRISING WHEN PEOPLE FROM
THE OPINION DIVISION PERPETUATE
LIES ABOUT THE ELECTION BEING
STOLEN, WHO ARE MORE CONCERNED
ABOUT CANCELING LIZ CHENEY THAN
THEY ARE ABOUT CANCELING
MARJORIE TAYLOR GREEN AS YOU
TALKED ABOUT A MINUTE AGO.
THIS IS A PROBLEM ALL OVER THE
PLACE.
AND IT’S INCUMBENT UPON
INSTITUTIONS ON EITHER SIDE TO
POLICE THEIR OWN IN RESPONSIBLE
WAYS AND TURN THINGS DOWN A
LITTLE BIT AND NOT PUSH OUT
MISINFORMATION AND LIES LEST YOU
PUSH OUT THE BACKLASH WHICH
MAKES THINGS WORTH.
HOWIE: A COLUMNIST WRITES THE
FOLLOWING WE NEED TO SHUT DOWN
THE INFLUENCERS.
WHO DECIDES WHO THE AWFUL PEOPLE
ARE AND WHAT GIVES THEM THE
POWER TO SHUT THEM DOWN?
>> WELL, LOOK, SOME OF IT IS
SOCIAL STIGMA AND CULTURE STUFF.
I DON’T SEE EYE TO EYE WITH MAX
ON A LOT OF THINGS.
I THINK WE CAN DRAW REASONABLE
DISAGREEMENTS AND DISTINCTIONS
BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO SAY LOWER
TAXES, MORE TAXES, YOU SHOULDN’T
GET RID OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN AS
THE NAME OF A SCHOOL AND PEOPLE
LIKE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREEN WHO
ENDORSED CONSPIRACY THEORIES WHO
SAID HILLARY CLINTON CUT OFF THE
FACES OF BABIES AND WORE THEM
LIKE MASKS, PEOPLE WHO CALL FOR
OBJECTIVE VIOLENCE, PEOPLE WHO
SUPPORT CLEAR AND PROVABLE LINE
AND INCITE PEOPLE TO VIOLENCE, I
THINK YOU CAN CONDEMN THAT KIND
OF THING AND NOT GIVE IT MORE
AIR AND MORE OXYGEN.
THAT GOES FOR BOTH SIDES OF THE
AISLE.
IT GOES CERTAINLY FOR A LOT OF
THE AN ANTIFA STUFF WHERE CNN
CELEBRATED VIOLENCE, WHERE MSNBC
CELEBRATED VIOLENCE OR GAVE
PERMISSION STRUCTURE FOR IT IN
WAYS THEY’RE HARSHLY CONDEMNING
NOW.
THERE ARE DOUBLE STANDARDS ALL
OVER THE PLACE.
I THINK THERE’S A REAL MORAL
PANIC ON THE RIGHT RIGHT NOW
ABOUT CANCEL CULTURE AND
SILENCING ONLY APPLYING TO
CONSERVATIVES WHEN EVERYBODY IS
IN THE GAME AND IT’S RUINING THE
COUNTRY AND RUINING OUR POLITICS
IN SHORT ORDER.
HOWIE: YEAH, WELL, WHAT REALLY
TROUBLES ME FOR MOST OF MY
CAREER JOURNALISTS WERE FIERCE
DEFENDERS OF FREE SPEECH.
NOW I THINK IDEOLOGY, WHATEVER
VIEW IT IS, RIGHT NOW I THINK
WE’RE SEEING A LOT AIMED AT THE
RIGHT, IS IN FAVOR I THINK AT
TIMES OF SUPPRESSING FREE
SPEECH.
GOOD CONVERSATION, JONAH
GOLDBERG.