>> I get it.
Some of you out there are so just stuck on your own favorite candidate that you can't
even have a little fun with someone, a candidate that you don't like.
Not I.
Because I think Senator Kamala Harris flawlessly flipped the, should you be Biden's VP question.
Just take a look.
>> Senator, are you sick of all the talk of how you'd be a perfect running mate?
>> You know, listen.
I think that sure, if people want to speculate about running mates I encourage that, cuz
I think that Joe Biden would be a great running mate.
As vice president he's proven that he knows how to do the job.
And there's certainly a lot of other candidates that would make, for me, a very viable and
interesting vice president.
>> So she used her humor there, but here's the thing.
Behind the scenes the word is that her camp is not happy with this question, as you can
imagine.
Harris had already been working to dispel the narrative that she's less electable than
other 2020 contenders as Democrats try to win back white, working class voters who backed
Donald Trump.
The focus on her as vice presidential material actually is seen as some allies, of course,
and it should be, as sexist, given the general lack of discussion about whether male presidential
hopefuls are viable.
And it's not just that, though, because Democratic supporters of Harris are actually pushing
this policy publicly.
This idea, excuse me publicly.
Last week, members of the influential Congressional Black Caucus floated Biden and Harris as a
dream ticket, and that put her in an uncomfortable spot of trying to delicately push back on
it without offending the group, of which she is a member.
>> So a couple of- >> So about the Black Caucus, I mean, they're
a bunch of cowards, every single person- >> What?
>> I'm sorry, I don't like Kamala Harris, I'll just say that right off the bat, and
I definitely- >> But you can't say that the Congressional
Black Caucus is-
>> What are they doing?
Why are they putting up Joe Biden, a person who's spoken fondly about compromising with
segregationists, who's eulogized Strom Thurman, who has opposed integration in the form of
bussing.
Who has co-sponsored drug bills that were incredibly damaging to the African-American
community that perpetuated the war on drugs.
That criminalized black existence in the form of the other, the crime that is what his famous
legislative accomplishment was, why are they backing this person?
>> Yeah, but you cannot call the Congressional Black Caucus which includes members like Representative
John Lewis, of all people, >> Not all, okay, not all of them.
But it's frustrating to me that every politician, no matter what, is very flake.
Very obviously going against the best interests of the constituencies, or even the identities
that they're supposed to be representing, if they're, if that's what we're going to
be talking about.
Cuz Joe Biden fails on all accounts.
His track record is God awful, his current standing is God awful, too.
I mean everything he says is a political gaffe.
He's not even intelligent enough to make a justice style retort to all of these, to any
of these questions.
He can't even deflect away.
It's just terrible, he's terrible across the board.
And any person that puts him up as the primary frontrunner for the Democratic party is not
a friend of mine.
I do not find them to be interested in the best interest of the American people.
It doesn't matter if it's the Congressional Black Caucus, it doesn't matter what the historic
legacy is.
I'm sorry, it's ridiculous.
And it's Joe Biden, it's not like I'm saying this is about Kamala Harris, Kamala Harris
has a lot of other issues.
But it's just terrible, I can't believe that these people are just still pushing this narrative.
>> Yeah, so I think- >> It's so damaging.
>> Yeah, I think that we're allowed to bifurcate things, so here's what I mean by that.
So John Lewis is a legend in the civil rights, but as a person who fought for positive changes
in this country overall.
That doesn't mean he's never wrong, it doesn't mean we can't disagree with him politically,
and it doesn't mean that he doesn't sometimes make judgment calls based on politics rather
than policy.
Let's keep it real.
He's a congressman, that happens.
And we're using John Lewis as a- >> He can't be a coward.
You can't say that somebody who's put their life on the line like he has is a coward.
>> Anyone who puts up Joe Biden right now as the frontrunner, and he even throws Kamala
Harris under the bus as a vice president rather than the actual president is not representing
the interest of their black constituents at all.
It's not representing the interest of Americans at all.
That's what I mean, you could have been a brave civil rights hero, but still be cowardly.
I don't know if John Lewis was personally responsible for putting Joe Biden as the front
runner, but I'm just saying that this move, right here, is a cowardly move.
We do not need Joe Biden.
Joe Biden is terrible.
>> Okay, let me weigh in here.
So a couple things, one we have no idea which way John Lewis is voting internally in the
Black Caucus.
>> The group in general.
>> Okay, and second of all, yes, the word cowardly is inflammatory.
But can you make political calculations that are based on fear rather than being bold?
Yes, can the Congressional Black Caucus do that from time to time, as any caucus does?
Yes, okay?
Now, I would argue that they shouldn't have supported Hillary Clinton in the last priority
cycle because her record on African-American issues was not that great.
But there was this perception that Bill Clinton was really positive for the African-American
community.
I'm not sure the track record actually indicated that, but it would have taken political courage
to go against someone who everyone viewed to be the likely candidate.
And it would have cost you politically possibly if you went against her and she won.
So can you say perhaps, some people, by the way, a lot of people, I'm sure who generally
believed in that caucus, and otherwise, in many caucuses.
Cuz almost of the Democrats voted for Hilary Clinton, the representatives did, the politicians
did, right?
Did some of them genuinely believe Hilary Clinton was a better candidate?
Of course.
Did someone do that cuz they were afraid to cross her?
Come on, keep it real, it's politics, of course they were.
Now, however you characterize that is up to you and up to us and everybody else on the
panel, right?
But in this case I have a couple of issues here.
Number one, Biden's track record is even worse than Hillary Clinton's with African American,
so on the substance of what some say in the policy, I agree.
And then number two, I understand why you might want to support Kamala Harris or Cory
Booker if you're the Congressional Black Caucus.
I don't know why you would feel pressure to support Joe Biden, given his track record.
And they say that political at least, frames it as that's their only choices.
Why is that your only choice?
Or you could vote with a guy who marched with Dr King, and
>> Arrested-
>> Fought for civil rights, and was arrested, fighting for civil rights when he was African-American
woman when he didn't have to do any of that.
And he wasn't a politician, and he did that earnestly.
Does that mean the Congressional Black Caucus has to agree with me?
Of course not, right?
And they don't have to support Bernie Sanders, but I would argue that he should at least
be in that conversation.
If there was another candidate, if Joe Biden had done the things that Bernie Sanders did,
they're about the same age.
He didn't.
In fact, he fought for against bussing.
So, when you have that dichotomy, and that's stark a dichotomy, and you say one guy is
not in the conversation, and the other guy is in the conversation, then I do question
what factors you're using for that decision?
Are you using policy or are you using likelihood of victory, and how it's gonna play for you,
etc?
I think that's a legitimate question.
>> I just wanna say that I don't think they always get it right.
A majority of the Congressional Black Caucus, years and years ago, supported Hillary Clinton
over Barack Obama, if you remember.
>> That's a great point, thats right.
>> Yeah.
>> I'm not saying that they don't get it wrong.
I just will not sit here and think it's okay to say that the Congressional Black Caucus
is a bunch of cowards.
I think that that's a step too far.
I just wasn't okay with that statement just personally but of course they get it wrong.
And to be fair, nobody else would say like, I understand why you would support, if they
only came out and only supported the black candidate, there would be so much backlash
about that every single time.
And what else was I gonna say, they can't just do that.
If every single candidate, every single candidate, even someone's favorite candidate, you can
find something they've done great for black people and something that they have done that
has been detrimental to black people.
Cuz that's just the history of politics.
Every single Democratic candidate, every single one has done something that is harmful to
black Americans, to that group of people.
>> Yeah, but Joe Biden, whose legacy is specifically doing harmful things to the black community-
>> You think he's done nothing good for black people?
>> No, that's not fair.
>> All of the- >> But no, no both sides are not fair.
Hold on, hold on.
>> I think all of his biggest legislative accomplishments are incredibly damaging to
the black community, whether it be the acceleration of the war on drugs or, like I said, the crime
control bills.
Like I mean, this is- >> Yeah.
>> I don't know what else they say about- >> No, I hear you.
>> Look, I think his track record- >> The way he regarded black people-
>> Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
His overall track record is not as good as even an average Democrat.
But that doesn't mean he can do anything good for African Americans.
No, he's a Democrat, he voted for a lot of bills that help the average guy rather than
the wealthy, the powerful, etc.
And we know how the demographic breakdown in this country has broken now so that winds
up helping African-Americans, etc.
So it's unfair to say he didn't do anything to help black people, that's, no.
But does he have a good track record on this?
I would argue he does not.
>> I would agree.
>> And so, I want to go back to one other central point here about Kamala Harris.
Which is that look, the joke is a very predictable, God bless though, it's good, it's fine.
The politico ruined it by saying that they talked it through and decided on the joke.
Don't say that, don't say that, okay, okay.
>> It ruins everything for me.
>> Anyway, but the point is the most important one which is that, look, I get it.
She's trailing Joe Biden, and so people who are trailing usually wind up becoming vice
president rather than president.
But it's super early in the process, and there is something sexist about it.
Look, I had this discussion with Ben and Michael Shure on Old School earlier in this week.
And what they were saying is obviously not their point of view.
They're very, very progressive.
But what they were hearing from some folks is that there is a buzz out there.
A point of view within Democratic circles that Kamala Harris might not be able to win
over the white working class voters being a woman and being black.
And maybe that's something you should count against her when trying to pick a nominee.
And so they're just reporting that that's a fact that is out there.
And that is what I want to push back against, it's not the fact that I exist but it does,
that idea.
Hell no, we're not gonna pick a candidate based on what people think might be the discrimination,
and with Trump voters who are trying to win over, no, no, no, no, no, no, no!
We're not gonna pick a Democratic nominee based on what you think Trump voters are gonna
think about a black person or a woman.
That's a hell to the F-in no, okay?
So and these are the same, honestly I keep trying not to call them idiots, but conventional
wisdom that told us that Barack Obama couldn't win.
I remember having that conversation on the air 100 times, cuz we've been around forever,
when Obama was running.
And I said I don't care what you think and the elites and the people in Washington and
what conventional wisdom think.
The American people are gonna choose based on policy and whether they want change, etc.
The Republican party has been a disaster.
They're like no, Cenk, you don't understand.
A black man will never win.
We should go safe and pick Hillary Clinton cuz she's white.
You don't understand.
His name is Barack Hussein Obama.
He can't ever win cuz the country is so deeply racist, etc.
And what happened?
You were wrong.
And here we are so many years later after Obama won twice, still having the same goddamn
conversation.
Judge Kamala Harris on her record, and there I have issues with her, okay?
But do not judge her based on these insane arbitrary characteristics.
And worst of all, we've got to appeal to Trump voters, so we're not gonna pick someone black,
or a woman.
>> It's disgusting.
>> No way, totally disgusting.
>> A lot of the issues one could have about Kamala Harris.
If you just write your top ten in a list.
Those are stronger over on Biden, so I do agree that it's ridiculous.
That, but that's what happens.
Black people have a higher bar than white people do with black people often times.
And this, I'm not talking about black activists, I'm talking about just like general black
voters.
And from what I've seen, there are harsher criticisms against her than Biden-
>> I 100% agree.
>> Similar angers about him.
>> Yeah, no, for sure, I mean like Kamala Harris, her opinion on truancy and jailing
black mothers and whatnot, not great, not great.
But definitely nowhere near as bad as Joe Biden.
>> Yeah.
>> Like it's harmful as Joe Biden to the black community.
>> I mean, so that why it's like, sometimes the right wing will say, I know, sometimes
the right wing will say absurd things like, my God, is the white people don't have a chance
in this country.
Cory Booker is just as establishment and corporate as Joe Biden, but now he's being discounted
completely.
Why?
Cuz, he's black, so that's an extra disadvantage that he has in appeal in the white working
class voters.
So it's obviously harder on black candidates and that's totally unfair.