David: On the... what else do we want to go to? There's a "New York Times" story about
rape that is drawing a lot of fire. "The New York Times" ran a story about the alleged
gang rape of an 11-year-old girl, and critics are saying the article blames the victim for
the assault.
And the story was published a couple of days ago. It described 18 men and teenage boys
raping the girl in an abandoned trailer home in Cleveland, Texas. And critics pointed to
a section in this "Times" article, and here's what it says. You tell me, Louis, whether
you think that this is blaming the victim.
"Residents in the neighborhood where the abandoned trailer stands said the victim had been visiting
various friends there for months. They said she dressed older than her age, wearing makeup
and fashions more appropriate to a woman in her 20s. She would hang out with teenage boys
at a playground. 'Where was her mother? What was her mother thinking?' one of a handful
of neighbors asked. 'How can you have an 11-year-old child missing down in the quarters?'"
Whether this is blame or not, it's a narrative very similar to the one that exists when there
is blame placed on the rape victim, and I don't like it at all.
Louis: Right, that's what it sounds like.
David: Do you agree? I mean, is there any other side, any other way to look at this?
Is it just setting a context for where the girl was, or what-- why would we even talk
about the oh, she was wearing makeup, so that's... then she got raped by 18 people, the makeup,
Louis, that's what it was.
Louis: It's a weird story, and there's got to be all sorts of details that we're not
hearing, but still, that article does make it sound like clearly she shouldn't have been
doing that and partially she's to blame.
David: Here's what the "Times" said about the statement. They said, "Neighbors' comments
about the girl which we reported in the story seem to reflect concern about what they saw
as a lack of supervision that may have left her at risk. As for residents' references
to the accused having to live with this for the rest of their lives, those are views we
found in our reporting, they are not our reporters' reactions. We're aware of and sensitive to
the concerns when reporting about sexual assault." You know, I just don't know that it's... when
we're talking about protecting victims' rights, and also, minors' rights, I don't even think
it's necessary to include this. They're-- the names of the neighbors are being included,
and if you're arguing that it's just to provide context and not to provide blame, there's
better ways to do it, I think, Louis, don't you?
Louis: I suppose there are better ways to do it, but just to play devil's advocate here
for a minute, if what they're trying to do is say to other parents listen...
David: This could happen.
Louis: This could happen, you know, watch what your daughter's wearing, watch what she's
doing. Do I think they could've gone about it in a more classy way? Yes.
David: The thing is if that really was a concern, we know that these risks exist, we don't have
to wait to include it in the... in an article about an 11-year-old who is raped. You can
teach those things other ways. It doesn't have to be days after a rape in "The New York
Times" in a way that ostensibly may be blaming the victim. There's just better ways.
Louis: There are better ways, but it doesn't mean people are going to seek out those ways.
I mean, when this is, let's say, on the front page of "The New York Times"...
David: Yeah.
Louis: Lots and lots of people are going to see it.
David: This ties back, honestly, to a lot of the issues like we talked with Matt Lewis
earlier about redefining rape and different proposals that will only make it less likely
that women will report rape, OK? You publish articles like this, we already see only 6%
of rapes ever find a convicted perpetrator, OK? We know that only a percentage of rapes
are reported for fear of shaming, embarassment, people not believing you. You're going to
put an article in "The New York Times" about an 11-year-old girl being raped and even create
a context that might suggest the girl, it was her own doing, and you are contributing
to the problem of lack of rape reporting. And that is not... I would not want to be
"The New York Times" on that. Absolutely not. It's very connected, to me, to that issue.
Louis: Well, being a media mogul yourself...
David: Right.
Louis: You know, you often have to make very difficult decisions on what to talk about,
right?
David: You're saying "The New York Times", they made a bad call on the article or they
made a bad call on the writing of it?
Louis: No, I'm not saying either.
David: Well, did they? I mean, what do you think?
Louis: How to say? I don't... I mean, is it something that shouldn't be reported altogether?
I mean, that's kind of silly.
David: No, you report the rape, Louis, but you don't start getting quotes from neighbors,
naming neighbors, that create a context of how the girl was, she was sexed up and she
was asking for it.
Louis: Well, someone thought it was an important detail. Would I have included it? No. That's
all I'm going to say.
David: All right.
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