SUPREME COURT ANNOUNCES IT WILL
HEAR AN ABORTION CASE FROM
MISSISSIPPI.
THEIR RULING COULD EVEN OVERTURN
ROE v. WADE.
JOINING ME NOW TO DISCUSS THE
INTERSECTION OF VOTING RIGHTS
AND ABORTION ACCESS, MELISSA
MURRAY, FACULTY DIRECTOR AT
WOMENS LEADERSHIP NETWORK AT
NYU SCHOOL OF LAW, AND FERNANDA
SANTOS, OPINION COLUMNIST FOR
"THE WASHINGTON POST."
FERNANDA, I WANT TO START WITH
THE AUDIT IN ARIZONA.
THE REPUBLICAN CHAIRMAN OF THE
MARICOPA MARICOPA BOARD OF
SUPERVISORS THIS WEEK CALLED IT
A GRIFT DISGUISED AS AN AUDIT.
TELL ME MORE.
>> THAT WASNT THE ONLY THING HE
CALLED, ALICIA.
GREAT TO BE HERE WITH YOU.
HE CALLED IT A CIRCUS.
MANY, MANY
IN MANY WAYS, THATS WHAT IT IS.
MARICOPA MARICOPA IS THE LARGEST
COUNTY IN ARIZONA.
PHOENIX IS THE COUNTY SEAT.
THEY HAVE BEEN COUNTED AND
RE-COUNTED AND NOW THEYRE BEING
ROUNDED BY HAND.
THEY HAVE MADE MISTAKES AND
BLAMED THE DEMOCRATS FOR THOSE
MISTAKES AND FOUND OUT, OOPS, WE
ACTUALLY WERE THE ONES WHO WERE
DOING THINGS WRONG.
BUT WHAT ITS REALLY DOING IS
SOWING EVEN MORE DISTRUST IN A
STATE THAT WENT FOR JOE BIDEN,
FOR A DEMOCRATIC, FOR THE FIRST
TIME SINCE BILL CLINTON WAS
ELECTED IN THE 90s.
ITS OBVIOUSLY A CAUSE FOR
CONCERN.
>> GOP LEADERS IN OTHER AREAS OF
THE THE COUNTRY ARE EYEING
SIMILAR AUDITS.
IN GEORGIA, A COUNTY JUDGE
APPROVED ABSENTEE BALLOTS IN THE
STATES MOST POPULATED COUNTY.
THESE ARE THE SAME STATES WHERE
LAWSUITS WERE TOSSED OUT OF
COURT FOR LACK OF LEGAL STANDING
IN THE WEEKS AFTER THE ELECTION.
WHAT HAS CHANGED TO ALLOW FOR
THESE AUDITS NOW?
>> NOT MUCH HAS CHANGED.
AGAIN, THEY ARE PRESSING FORWARD
HOPING TO GET SOME RECOURSE IN
THE COURTS.
BUT AGAIN, THE FUNDAMENTALS ARE
NOT THAT DIFFERENT.
WE HAD AN ELECTION.
THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF VOTER
FRAUD OR CERTAINLY NO
APPRECIABLE EVIDENCE OF VOTER
FRAUD, BUT YOU SEE THIS BIG LIE
PERSIST.
ITS NOT JUST THESE LAWSUITS,
BUT EVER MORE RESTRICTIVE LAWS
THAT HAVE BEEN PASSED IN THESE
STATES THAT ARE CONTROLLED BY
REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURES.
IT ALL GOES TO THE POINT YOU
MADE AT THE TOP OF THIS BLOCK,
THAT THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO TRIM
THE ELECTORATE FOR LIMITING THE
PARTICIPATION OF CERTAIN GROUPS.
>> FERNANDA, THE ANTI-ABORTION
MOVEMENT BACKS VOTER SUPPRESSION
EFFORTS IN THE NAME OF ELECTION
INTEGRITY FUELED BY DONALD
TRUMPS BIG LIE.
IRPD
I WONDER WHAT YOU SEE.
>> ARIZONA IS A GREAT ABRAHAMTER
FOR THE COUNTRY BECAUSE ITS A
STATE IN GREAT TRANSITION.
YOU HAVE A RISING POPULATION OF
LATINOS.
ITS PROJECTED BY 2030 IT WILL
BE A MINORITY-MAJORITY STATE.
WHAT WE SEE HERE NOW IS THAT
TENSION BETWEEN THE WHITE ANGLO
MAJORITY THAT IS SEEING ITS
POWER WAYNE AND SAW IT VERY MUCH
SO IN 2020 WITH THE PRESIDENTIAL
ELECTION RESULTS, AND THE RISING
BROWN AND COMMUNITIES OF COLOR
WHO HAVE ORGANIZED AROUND AND
REALLY MOBILIZED A LOT OF NEW
VOTERS IN THE STATE.
THERES ALSO A LOT OF INROADS
BEING MADE BY INDEPENDENTS AND
PEOPLE WHO ARE MORE MODERATE
THAT ARE SICK OF THIS EXTREME
POLITICS FROM THE REPUBLICAN
PARTY.
SO I SEE ALL OF THAT, ALICIA, AS
LAST-DITCH EFFORT FOR CONTROL
HERE IN EVERY WHICH WAY, BE IT
ELECTION RESULTS, BE IT ABORTION
LAWS, OR OTHER TYPES OF
RESTRICTIVE LAWS.
>> THIS IS EXACTLY WHY IM
OBSESSED WITH ARIZONA BECAUSE,
AS YOU SAID, I DO THINK IT IS A
MICROCOSM FOR WHAT COULD HAPPEN
IN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.
MELISSA, WHEN IT COMES TO
BANNING ABORTIONS, REPUBLICANS
NOW HAVE A 6-3 CONSERVATIVE
MAJORITY IN THE SUPREME COURT.
HOW IS THE NEW MAKEUP OF THE
COURT A GAME CHANGER FOR PUSHING
THIS AGENDA?
>> ITS ABSOLUTELY
CONSEQUENTIAL, ALICIA.
WE SAW WITH THE DID HE HAVE THE
RUTH BADER GINSBURG, THE COURT
WE UNDERSTAND FROM A 5-4
CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY TO A 6-3
SUPER MAJORITY.
ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW IN THINKING
ABOUT WHAT THAT MEANS GOING
FORWARD IS TO THINK ABOUT LAST
TERM WHERE HE SAW JUNE MEDICAL
SERVICES, ANOTHER ABORTION
CHALLENGE, THIS TIME TO
ADMITTING PRIVILEGES LAW FROM
LOUISIANA WHERE WE SAW THE CHIEF
JUSTICE PEEL OFF AND JOIN THE
LIBERAL WING OF THE COURT TO
STRIKE DOWN THAT LAW ON THE
GROUND THAT SIMILAR LAW HAD BEEN
STRUCK DOWN JUST FOUR YEARS
EARLIER.
NOW THE CHIEF JUSTICE IS NO
LONGER IN THAT SWING JUSTICE
POSITION.
HE CANNOT MAKE A MAJORITY
BECAUSE THERE ARE ONLY THREE
LIBERALS ON THE COURT, AND THE
CONSERVATIVES DO NOT NEED HIM TO
FORM A MAJORITY BECAUSE THEY
ALREADY HAVE FIVE.
SO YOU HAVE FOUR VOTES, I THINK,
IF YOURE COUNTING TO OVERRULE
ROE ENTIRELY AND ALL YOU NEED IS
ONE MORE TO GET THE MAJORITY AND
IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE A CHIEF
JUSTICE.
YOURE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF
INSTITUTIONAL DYNAMICS GOING
AROUND THIS COURT.
AND THE BEST-CASE SCENARIO GOING
FORWARD IS THAT PERHAPS THE
CHIEF JUSTICE JOINS THE
CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY SO THAT HE
WILL HAVE THE PREROGATIVE TO
ASSIGN THE OPINION TO HIMSELF
AND WRITE A NARROW RULING THAT
DOES NOT EXPLICITLY OVERRULE ROE
BUT HOPES TO CHANGE THE BIGGER
POLITICAL FLASH POINT THAT
OFFERING ROE WOULD CERTAINLY
PORTEND.
>> I HAVE A POLITICAL QUESTION
AND YOULL TELL ME WHETHER OR
NOT YOU FEEL ABLE TO HANDLE IT.
BUT WHERE THE REPUBLICAN BASES
ON THE QUESTION OF REPRODUCTIVE
RIGHTS AND ACCESS IS NOT WHERE
AMERICA IS.
A PEW SURVEY FINDS 6 IN 10
AMERICANS THINK ABORTION SHOULD
BE LEGAL IN ALL OR MOST CASES.
SO IF THE SUPREME COURT WEAKENS
ROE, YOUR SENSE OF THE BROADER
POLITICAL CONSEQUENCES FOR
REPUBLICANS, FOR DEMOCRATS?
IF THIS HAPPENS IN THE LEAD-UP
TO 2022?
>> YOURE EXACTLY RIGHT.
THE REPUBLICAN BASE OVERRULE ROE
IS THE GREAT WHITE WHALE THEYVE
BEEN TRYING TO HAVE HAPPEN FOR
THE LAST 40 YEARS.
ITS NOT POPULAR WITH THE
MAJORITY OF AMERICAN VOTERS.
THE CHIEF JUSTICE WHO VERY MUCH
CARES ABOUT THE COURTS
INSTITUTIONAL REPUTATION
UNDERSTANDS THAT.
I IMAGINE I DIDNT WANT TO TAKE
UP THIS CASE GOING INTO THE
MIDTERM ELECTIONS.
AND THE FACT THAT THIS CASE WAS
ON THE COURTS CERT LIST FOR
WEEKS, IT WAS HEARD IN
CONFERENCE 17 TIMES BEFORE THEY
DECIDED TO GRANT CERT AND YOU
ONLY NEED FOUR JUSTICES TO GRANT
CERT.
I THINK WHAT THE CHIEF JUSTICE
WANTS TO DO IS AVOID THAT MORE
EXPLOSIVE RULING, OVERRULE ROE,
AND THEN THE COURT CAN TAKE UP
ANOTHER ABORTION CHALLENGE AND
FINISH THE JOB.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRUCK
ME ABOUT YOUR GREAT "WASHINGTON
POST" OP-ED ABOUT WHAT IS
HAPPENING IN ARIZONA IS THAT YOU
FRAME IT AS AN OPPORTUNITY COST.
THERES A LOT OF MONEY THAT IS
GOING INTO THESE EFFORTS THAT
COULD BE SPENT OTHERWISE ON
OTHER THINGS.
IRPD IF YOU COULD SORT OF WALK
US THROUGH THAT BECAUSE ITS ONE
OF THE WAYS IN WHICH WE HAVE NOT
TALK ABOUT IT.
THIS IS A TON OF TIME, ITS A
TON OF EFFORT, ITS A TON OF
MONEY THAT COULD BE SPENT AND
PUT ON SOMETHING ELSE.
>> AND I THINK THATS THE LESS
PART WE FORGET TO TALK ABOUT.
WE SAY IT COSTS A LOT OF
TAXPAYER MONEY, BUT WHAT ELSE
COULD WE BE SPENDING THAT MONEY
ON?
WHEN I HEARD THE FIGURE
$6 MILLION, FOR THE BUDGET OF A
GREAT CORPORATION, ITS REALLY
NOTHING.
BUT FOR A COMMUNITY, FOR A LOCAL
ORGANIZATION THAT DOES WORK ON
THE GROUND, ITS A LOT OF MONEY.
SO I CALLED, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU
KNOW, A WOMAN WHO RUNS THE
LARGEST SHELTER, EMERGENCY
SHELTER HERE IN THE STATE, A
STATE THAT IS, LIKE MOST OTHER
STATES IN THE COUNTRY, FACING A
LOOMING CRISIS WITH EVICTIONS AS
THE PANDEMIC RELIEF MONEY ENDS.
AND SHE GASPED WHEN I TOLD HER,
WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU HAD
$6 MILLION, AND THE SOLUTIONS
ARE M. SHE COULD BUY AN ENTIRE
HOTEL TO TAKE SENIOR CITIZENS
OFF THE STREETS.
MANY OF THE HOMELESS PEOPLE IN
ARIZONA ARE 65 AND OLDER.
THATS TRUE IN OTHER PARTS OF
THE COUNTRY AS WELL OR 55 AND
OLDER, AN AGING POPULATION.
SO ITS A REALLY -- ITS MOMENTS
LIKE THESE WE HAVE TO THINK
ABOUT THE OPPORTUNITIES MISSED
AND THEN USE THAT TO TURN THE
PUBLIC OPINION, REALLY OPEN THE
CRIES OF PEOPLE WHOSE EYES CAN
STILL BE OPENED TO WHAT IT IS
WERE MISSING OUT ON, HOW WE
SHOULD PUT PRESSURE ON
OFFICIALS, THE GOVERNOR OF
ARIZONA HAS NOT MADE