Is not a household name, but he was a campaign official on the Trump 2020
campaign is now cooperating with prosecutors from Jack Smith's team.
This is the one into January 6 and the efforts by Trump and
his allies to overturn the election result.
>> We have had a number of different developments in the Trump related
investigations and as was pointed out there both on the classified documents
side as well as the January 6 side.
We have both for you here, but we do need to talk about Mike Roman,
director of Election Day Operations for Trump's campaign.
And very much involved in a number of the efforts in the months leading
between the election to January 6 to try to overturn the results of the election.
Now has struck some sort of deal with Jack Smith and his legal team and
that could be very significant.
Here's a little bit more of the details.
>> Why it matters that Mike Roman is now cooperating is that he may not have to
appear before the grand jury in a formal way.
He did get a subpoena earlier this year.
They did seize his phone a few months ago.
So two notable factors there obviously he could speak to them
in a more informal setting, and
it's notable because he's someone who was involved with the fake electoral scheme.
>> Well, in fact, in the last week or so, at least as has been publicly
acknowledged, two of those directly involved in the fake elector scheme have
now reached some sort of deal with Jack Smith's team.
We don't have all the details of exactly what they've done, but
when it comes to Mike Roman, we actually have quite a bit of information that
has slowly dribbled out over the last year or so about his involvement.
The New York Times had previously reported that Roman was doing much of the legwork
in finding ways to challenge Trump's losses in the key battleground states
after 2020.
He's considered a major part of the plot to send fake election officials to declare
falsely that Trump had won Georgia, Arizona and Michigan.
Back in July of last year, politico named him as a Trump operative who tried
to get a list of false electors to Michigan and Wisconsin.
Remember that was not just a state level thing.
There were efforts to have that sent directly to Mike Pence.
It was going to be sort of the centerpiece of the non flag,
whaling wielding, window breaking efforts on January 6.
And by the way, in addition to Mike Roman, we also have reporting recently that
Rudy Giuliani has voluntarily answered questions from federal prosecutors about
the plan involving several members of the former President's inner circle.
Leading some in the MAGA world to wonder if Rudy Giuliani has finally flipped on
Donald Trump.
I would not jump to conclusions.
Rudy has been very loyal to Donald Trump over the years.
He has been willing to see his reputation as well as his physical image just
absolutely in tatters as a result of what he's done with Trump.
But now multiple people at the very least are cooperating or
have accepted immunity deals like Mike Roman.
What do you think?
>> Yeah, I mean, Rudy is basically Trump's Igor, and
he went from being America's mayor to that ignoble fate instead.
And if Igor turns on you, [LAUGH] you're in a world of drove anyway.
But that's a long way away.
Let's focus on the things that we know for sure now, okay?
So for number one,
I think this is the single most important case against Trump and his allies.
Even more important than the national secret documents case, why?
Because he's most likely to get convicted here?
No, it's because this case is the most important in terms of substance and
precedent.
So this is the very, very heart of what happened on January 6.
Breaking into a building, honestly, is not that big a deal.
It's a crime.
It should be prosecuted.
Those are low level guys.
They didn't plan anything.
They were the schmucks who showed up and broke the law, okay?
Again, they should be prosecuted for their crimes.
But the guys who organize the crimes are much more important.
And the crime of breaking in again is relatively minor compared to
the crime of doing a coup against the United States of America to take
a Democratic election and overturn it with things like fake electors.
And that's exactly what this is.
That's exactly what Trump tried to do and his allies tried to do.
I don't know why the press doesn't talk about this more than anything else in
the world.
I'm just gonna leave alone their intentions and their motivations, etc.
But the bottom line is this is the one that should get all the attention.
And because, guys, if you show that there are real consequences for
this kind of attempt, the next time Republicans go to steal an election,
let's say a Donald Trump goes, hey, you know what?
I lost again, but I'd like to stay again.
Okay, so now we're gonna do the fake electorate thing.
Then maybe people around him go, well,
I remember the last guy who helped you with a fake electorate scheme.
He's spending twelve years in Fort Leavenworth.
So I'm a little bit gun shy about this coup idea, right?
So even if they don't get Trump in this case, just getting involved,
everyone involved in the fake electoral scheme would be monumental.
Now, in terms of how close we are to that, look, man, this Jack Smith,
he's a bad man.
As Mohammed Ali used to say, finally we have a real prosecutor.
And I could see it because I'm a lawyer, I've worked for
a nanosecond as a prosecutor, but
I can see the actions he's taking up to the case and he's killing it, okay?
So he's got four people to flip already on Trump in this case alone,
and two of them are electors themselves.
Remember, the fake electors signed false documents and sent them into Congress.
And so that also gives a real prosecutor like Jack Smith a great card to play.
You lied on a form, on a federal form.
That is a significant crime, and, brother, you're in a lot of trouble, okay?
And I mean, you signed it.
There's no way around it.
So now that's why he's getting all these guys to go one by one by one.
He's doing domino's here, which is what a professional great prosecutor does, okay.
All right, you're gonna jail.
You'd like to talk now, okay.
Who put you up to it?
There we go.
That's how we get to who actually ordered this and
actually tried to steal this election.
Super important case, Yasmin.
>> Yeah, it's funny that you referred to him as Igor, because in my mind,
I always thought of Rudy Giuliani as more of, like a renfield character.
>> [LAUGH] >> But it's motto kind of the same thing.
But what you were saying, Cenk, this fake electoral scheme is so
wild that I feel as much as we talk about it, we don't talk about it enough.
It is really crazy.
And there does need to be accountability here, because if there isn't,
that is very damaging to this democracy and to this country.
And it's all the more baffling when you remember that.
Who is it?
I think Pete Navarro.
He basically confessed to the whole scheme and
explained the plot on live television one time on MSNBC.
We're really seeing Jack Smith and
his team really hone in on the inner circle right now.
And honestly, I feel like a lot of Americans are eager for
them to wrap this up, because as a nation, we really need to move on.
Americans have real issues that, frankly, are more important
to them in the short term than whether or not Trump goes to jail.
There are real issues facing real Americans that need to be dealt with.
But we're still stuck in courts going through this rigmarole with Trump.
Of course, it's all connected.
We can't govern effectively if our democracy is in tatters.
And of course, we need to get accountability here, and
we have to get this thing right.
All of that said, the quicker these people can cooperate,
the better off we'll all be, the more grateful I will be.
I know for sure.
>> Yeah, I personally hope that we at least wrap up all these investigations
in time for Trump to beat Biden in 2024, get back into offices and
start breaking new laws.
>> Yeah.
>> I don't want to have to mix up multiple seasons.
It gets complex.
>> Yeah. >> Okay, real quick, though, last.
>> Gets a little muddled.
>> Peter Navarro not only admitted it on TV,
he wrote a whole book about it [LAUGH].
And now that we have a real prosecutor on the case, God help him.
Okay, so we'll see how that goes.
And guys, last thing.
The reason why I say this is the most important case is, look,
Trump taking home national security documents terrible and
a huge violation of the law, but it's kind of a one off, right?
All right, so a bunch of them take him home.
It's a bad precedent.
We don't want you taking them home.
We don't want you selling them.
We don't want any of that, right?
But it doesn't fundamentally affect our democracy.
Whether you create fake electors to steal an election,
that's a coup against our government, that affects our democracy 100%.
So this is definitely the most important case.
>> Yeah. >> I'm thrilled that Jack Smith's on it.
Yeah, and it's barely speculative that they will try this in the future.
They are clearly,
in the intervening years, trying to set up to do this in swing states again.