CHIEF OF STAFF MICK MULVANEY HAS NOW OFFICIALLY BEEN SUBPOENAED
TO TESTIFY BEFORE THE
IMPEACHMENT COMMITTEES TOMORROW.
I’LL KEEP YOU POSTED.
NOW IT’S TIME FOR THE "LAST
WORD" WITH LAWRENCE O’DONNELL.
GOOD EVENING, LAWRENCE.
>> GOOD EVENING, RACHEL.
AND I WAS LISTENING TO EVERY
WORD OF WHAT YOU FOUND IN THAT
PORTION OF THE ANONYMOUS BOOK,
WHICH IS WHAT, TWO WEEKS AWAY
FROM BEING PUBLISHED,
APPROXIMATELY?
APPROXIMATELY? >> YEAH.
>> YEAH. >> AND DOES IT GIVE YOU ANY
SETTING FOR THESE MEETINGS?
I MEAN WE DON’T KNOW IN THESE
DISCUSSIONS WHETHER THIS IS A
BUDGET DISCUSSION OR WHETHER
IT’S A HOMELAND SECURITY
DISCUSSION.
DISCUSSION. IS THAT THE WAY IT READS THAT
YOU CAN’T QUITE FIX THAT?
>> WELL, IT READS LIKE SOMEBODY
WHO’S IN DIRECT CONTACT WITH THE
PRESIDENT OR SOMEBODY WHO WAS
OTHERWISE ABLE TO ASSERT
CONFIDENTLY THAT THEY CAN
DIRECTLY QUOTE THE PRESIDENT AND
DESCRIBE NOT ONLY HIS ACTIONS
AND HIS WORDS BUT HIS DEMEANOR.
AND WHAT’S DESCRIBED HERE IS
SECURITY STUFF IN PART AND THE
PRESIDENT’S ODD FIXATION ON
VISUAL MEMES AND VISUAL CUES
EVEN WHEN HE CAN’T ABSORB
ANYTHING WITH A COMMA IN IT.
BASICALLY ANYTHING THAT HAS MORE
THAN ONE CONCEPT IN IT DELIVERED
TO HIM IN PROSE AT MORE THAN ONE
TIME.
TIME. >> IN MANY OTHER WHITE HOUSES
THERE’D BE WAYS OF NARROWING
DOWN THE POSSIBILITIES OF WHO
WAS LIKELY TO HEAR CONVERSATIONS
LIKE THAT.
LIKE THAT. THE TROUBLE IS THIS WAS THE --
IT CERTAINLY WAS FOR A LONG TIME
MAYBE STILL IS, THE OPEN DOOR
OVAL OFFICE WHERE WE HAVE THESE
REPORTS OF DONALD TRUMP JUST
WAVING ALL SORTS OF PEOPLE IN.
THERE REALLY ISN’T A GATEKEEPER.
APPARENTLY JOHN KELLY TRIED TO
BE A GATE CHEMOER TO KEEP PEOPLE
OUT, BUT YOU COULDN’T REALLY DO
THAT.
THAT. SO THERE’S A KIND OF ATMOSPHERE
IN THERE WHERE IT’S VERY HARD I
THINK FOR PEOPLE IN THAT WHITE
HOUSE TO KEEP TRACK OF WHO MIGHT
BE IN THE ROOM AT ANY GIVEN
TIME.
TIME. >> YES, AND THAT’S ACTUALLY PART
OF WHAT ANONYMOUS WRITES ABOUT
IS THAT THE PRESIDENT WOULD FIX
HIS MIND ON SOMETHING, OFTEN
SOMETHING HE GOT FROM
TELEVISION, DECIDE HE WAS GOING
TO DO IT AND THEN RANDOMLY THE
NEXT WHITE HOUSE AIDE WHO HE
CAME ACROSS WOULD BE THE PERSON
WHO WAS IN CHARGE OF RECEIVING
THAT BRIEFING FROM THE PRESIDENT
AND POTENTIALLY ACTING ON IT OR
CONVEYING A MESSAGE TO THE WHITE
HOUSE PRESS SPOKESPERSON THAT
THIS SHOULD NOW BE CONVEY TODAY
THE PUBLIC AS THE NEW IDEA OF
THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT AND THE
NEW ACTION THAT THE PRESIDENT
WAS ORDERING BEING TAKEN, THAT
IT WAS SOMEWHAT RANDOM, THAT IT
WAS WHOEVER HE LIT UPON NEAR HIM
WOULD THEN BE ROPED INTO
WHATEVER THE CRAZY IDEA WAS.
BUT IT ALSO VERY MUCH TELLS YOU
IT COULD BE COMPLICATED TO
FIGURE OUT WHO THE PERSON WAS
WHO WAS AT ALL OF THESE MEETINGS
WHO WITNESSED ALL OF THESE
THINGS.
THINGS. AND THE PROCESS OF ELIMINATION
MAY NOT APPLY HERE IF LITERAL
RANDOS WALKING BY ARE DRAFTED
INTO THESE CONVERSATION.
>> THIS BOOK COMES INTO AFTER
BOB WOODWARD HAS TAKEN US INTO
SIMILAR SCENES IN HIS INSIDE THE
TRUMP WHITE HOUSE BOOK.
HOW DOES THIS READ COMPARED TO
THOSE?
THOSE? WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE WHEN
YOU’RE HOLDING AN ACCOUNT THAT
IS WRITTEN BY SOMEONE WHO IS
PART OF THE TEAM IN THAT ROOM?
>> THIS -- I MEAN, CLEARLY ONE
OF THE THINGS THAT IS SOMEWHAT
UNIQUE ABOUT THIS IS THAT IT’S
WRITTEN FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF
A SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL
AND SOMEBODY WHO DID NOT COME
INTO IT DISINCLINED TOWARDS
PRESIDENT TRUMP’S AGENDA.
SO IT’S WRITTEN FROM THE POINT
OF VIEW OF SOMEBODY WHO ISN’T --
ISN’T THERE TO BE CRITICAL AND
ISN’T THERE TO OBSERVE.
IT’S FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF
SOMEBODY WHO’S THERE TO TRY TO
MAKE GOVERNMENT.
MAKE GOVERNMENT. SO WHEN I THINK YOU’VE HAD OTHER
AUTHORS CHARACTERIZE THE
FEELINGS OF THEIR SOURCES, EVEN
MULTIPLE SOURCES IN TERMS OF HOW
PEOPLE AROUND TRUMP REACTED TO
HIM OR FELT ABOUT HIS BEHAVIOR,
IN THIS CASE YOU GET IN IT IN
THE FIRST PERSON, YOU ALSO ARE
PRIVY TO CONVERSATIONS ACCORDING
TO ANONYMOUS THAT THIS AUTHOR
HAD WITH PEOPLE IN A SIMILAR
ROLE.
ROLE. OTHER PEOPLE IN SENIOR
ADMINISTRATION JOBS WHO WERE
PRO-TRUMP NEVERTHELESS DRIVEN TO
ACTUAL PANIC IN TERMS OF TRYING
TO STOP HIM FROM DOING WHAT HE
WANTED TO DO.
SO YOU’RE CLOSER TO THE -- I
GUESS I WOULD SAY YOU’RE CLOSER
TO THE SOURCE, RIGHT, BECAUSE
THIS IS THE SOURCE WRYING IN HIS
OR HER OWN TERMS.
BUT IT’S NOT INCONSISTENT WITH
THE PORTRAITS THAT WE’VE HAD
THROUGH, YOU KNOW, DAILY
NEWSPAPER REPORTING ON THE
BEHAVIOR OF THE PRESIDENT AND
FROM THOSE BOOKS THAT YOU
DESCRIBED.
DESCRIBED. IT IS ALL OF A PIECE.
AND THERE IS NEWS IN THIS BOOK
WHICH HAS STARTED TO BE REPORTED
ELSEWHERE.
ELSEWHERE. OTHER PEOPLE HAVE STARTED TO SEE
PASSAGES OF THE BOOK.
BUT THE STUFF I WAS ABLE TO READ
TONIGHT I THINK GIVES YOU
PARTICULARLY A WINDOW INTO THE
UPSET OF PEOPLE OTHERWISE
INCLINED TO SUPPORT THIS
PRESIDENT WHO WERE HORRIFIED BY
AND FULL OF REGRET FOR THEIR OWN
DECISION TO BE THERE.
>> I THINK, RACHEL, FOR ME THE
SHOCKING PART OF TONIGHT ABOUT
HEARING YOU READ IS NOT THAT I
FELT LIKE I WAS LEARNING
SOMETHING NEW ABOUT DONALD
TRUMP.
TRUMP. THE OTHER ACCOUNTS HAD ALL THIS
KIND OF STUFF IN IT.
BUT IT IS YET ANOTHER MOMENT
WHERE YOU KIND OF SIT THERE AND
YOU THINK ABOUT ALL OF THE
PEOPLE AROUND DONALD TRUMP WHO
ARE GOING ALONG WITH THIS
INCLUDING -- INCLUDING THE
AUTHOR OF THIS PIECE.
NOW, THIS AUTHOR TAKES US INTO
THE INTERIOR DIALOGUE OF HOW
DIFFICULT THAT IS AND MAYBE I
SHOULD HAVE RESIGNED AT
CHARLOTTESVILLE, MAYBE I SHOULD
HAVE DONE THIS.
BUT IS THAT -- IS THAT A LOOK
INSIDE HUNDREDS OF MINDS OF
REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE OF
REPRESENTATIVES AND IN THE
SENATE?
SENATE? OR HAVE THEY JUST STOPPED
THINKING ABOUT THIS?
HAVE THEY JUST GONE ALONG WITH
THIS LONG ENOUGH THAT THEY ARE
JUST NOW ROBOTICALLY GOING ALONG
WITH ALL OF DONALD TRUMP’S
STUFF?
STUFF? >> IT’S A VERY GOOD INSIGHT AND
A VERY GOOD QUESTION.
I MEAN, I THINK IF WE THINK THE
BEST OF OUR FELLOW AMERICANS WHO
HAVE GONE INTO PUBLIC SERVICE
AND WE IMAGINE THE BEST POSSIBLE
INTENSIONS FOR THOSE WHOSE
HEARTS AND MINDS WE DON’T KNOW
OURSELVES, THE BEST CASE
SCENARIO YOU CAN THINK IN SOME
OF THE WORST MOMENTS LIKE, YOU
KNOW, AFTER CHARLOTTESVILLE WHEN
HE’S PRAISING THE NEO-NAZI SIDE
AND ALL OF THESE THINGS IS THAT
PEOPLE MAYBE DID THINK THAT THEY
THINGS WERE GOING TO BE BETTER
BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT THAT BAD A
PERSON AND SO NOT QUITTING AND
NOT SPEAKING OUT IN ORDER TO
HOLD THEIR PLACE IN THE
ADMINISTRATION OR IN REPUBLICAN
POLITICS WAS SOMEHOW GOING TO
BENEFIT THE COUNTRY.
CLEARLY THIS ANONYMOUS AUTHOR
WAS IN THAT POSITION WHEN THIS
PERSON WROTE THE OP-ED LAST
YEAR, SAYING LITERALLY THE
ADULTS ARE IN THE ROOM.
WE WANT TO REASSURE YOU,
AMERICA, DON’T WORRY WE’RE
TRYING TO THWART THE WORST STUFF
HE WANTS TO DO.
THAT IS NOT THE TONE OF THIS
BOOK.
BOOK. THE TONE OF THIS BOOK IS PEOPLE
TRYING TO THWART HIS WILL THE
ADMINISTRATION IS NOT ENOUGH.
A, THE BEST ONES ARE GONE AURPD
ALREADY.
ALREADY. AND THIS IS WARNING ABOUT DANGER
TO THE COUNTRY AND THE FACT
HAVING SOME SELF-PROCLAIMED
ADULTS IN THE ROOM ISN’T ENOUGH.
SO IF THAT IS THE BEST CASE
SCENARIO OF HOW SOME PEOPLE OF
CONSCIENCE HAVE BEEN THERE
SUPPORTING OR STICKING UP FOR
THIS PRESIDENT, THIS IS AN