James: After Bob died and you were
left just the only pastor in the church,
what has been an encouragement to you?
It's not like these last years have been easy.
There have been difficulties.
How has the Lord kept you going
in the midst of those trials?
Clint: They were difficult years
immediately following Bob's death.
We had plenty of controversy.
And I was now facing it alone.
God surrounded me with good men.
There's something very uplifting
and courage building to realize
that you're not in the struggle alone.
Even though my best friend
and my co-pastor was gone.
And in that sense, I was a sole pastor
at this church, this location.
Still, there were these other men
that I knew in Kirksville, in Denton,
in Texas - all around.
And that was very courage building and uplifting.
That helped me.
As far as God was concerned,
what helped me more than anything else -
I kept being brought full circle back
to the love of God -
the unchanging love of God.
There were times at night
when I would lie there sleepless.
That's the way that I am.
I imagine other guys to be stronger than that
and able to put those things
out of their minds and sleep,
but I lose sleep.
Sleepless nights, the Apostle Paul said
in 2 Corinthians 11.
But there were times at night
when I would be laying there wide awake,
my heart pounding with a fresh problem
that had come up and all I could say
under my breath over and over again
was, "Thank You, Lord, for loving me."
And that was from God's end
a life saver for me.
In the way of practical things,
having someone to talk to
was very important.
You can't hold these things in.
They'll eat you up.
You've got to have someone to talk to.
And for a pastor, that means another pastor.
Not someone in the church.
I mean, I had brothers in the church
that I would have coffee with
and it would be more lighthearted.
But to bear my soul -
to say what do I do in this problem
or that problem,
that's a place that only another pastor has been in
and can really sympathize with.
So, I was again helped by these men
that are in other churches
that were able to console me.
Brother Mack, he always manages to show up
in his tour through Missouri
whenever some difficulty has just happened.
And Brother Mack, many many times
was just such an encouragement to me
and an uplifting presence in my home.
And Charles with his wisdom so many times,
his experience,
would talk me through things and help me.
So those men were very valuable.
I learned during that period of time
to pray the Psalms.
You find in the psalm writers
the very same feelings,
distress and fear,
and those kinds of feelings,
discouragement -
and they come out in the Psalms all the time.
I learned to pray those Psalms -
turn them into prayers.
You can take a psalm -
off the top of my head, Psalm 23.
Lord, You say You're my Shepherd.
Would You shepherd my soul?
It's Your job to feed me, to protect me,
to guard me, to lead me.
Would You do that for me?
You say in Your Word, Lord,
that I'll have no want.
Would You satisfy me completely in You?
Would You lead me by those still waters?
Lord, I long for those still waters.
Would You cause me to lie down in green pastures?
I need that right now.
Would You restore my soul?
I'm languishing. I'm wasting away.
You know, turn it into a prayer like that.
So practically, it was very useful for me
during those seasons.
My wife was an incredible help for me.
Adam was given Eve.
She was a helper suitable for him.
My wife is my best counselor.
She knows me inside and out.
She could tear me down with a word
and crush my spirit,
or she can build me up with a word.
She was my best counselor.
She was right in all of the situations
and knew them well.
And so she was very much able to help me.
You know, Job didn't have that, did he?
He was going through those difficult times,
incredibly painful, grievous times of affliction.
What was his wife's counsel?
Curse God and die.
Manoah, Samson's father, on the other hand
he and his wife saw the Angel of the Lord
in that miraculous encounter there.
The Angel of the Lord taken
up into heaven by fire from the altar.
Manoah fell on his face and he said,
"We have seen the Lord. We will surely die."
And he was very pessimistic
and I'm like that oftentimes
more than I care to admit.
But it was Manoah's wife
who had the word of faith
and the word of comfort.
She said if God had intended to kill us,
He would not have accepted our sacrifice.
He would not have shown us these things.
And we would not have heard these things
at this time.
And so you see, right in all of that,
it's very reasonable,
very logical progression based on faith.
And that was the word for Manoah.
So my wife has been that for me.
She's been my best counselor.
James: What would you say
to another pastor's wife if her husband
is going through a deep time of discouragement
and trials in the church?
What can she do for her husband
to help encourage him?
Clint: I would tell her first off
to recognize that he's not himself.
He's got things on his mind
that are just churning.
And if he's sitting silent on the couch
staring out the window,
don't hold it against him.
It's not that he's upset with you.
And I would say to her
take over as much as you can
in the way of responsibilities
so that he's not juggling matters of God's people
which are very burdensome,
troubling matters in his heart and his mind,
and at the same time having to take on
other responsibilities if she is able to do them.
That would be helpful.
I would say maintain an attitude
of cheerfulness in the home.
Go about your day cheerfully
and with a glad spirit
because that way it would tend to uplift him
rather than two people who are struggling emotionally.
And it's always such a benefit, isn't it?
When I was down, my wife was up.
And so I'm very thankful for that.
My wife goes about humming.
She hums plenty of songs.
I suggested hum hymns that I can recognize
because I recognize the tune
and it's contagious.
Gladness, cheerfulness of heart is contagious.
So I would say that.
Those are practical things.
James: As far as for the members in the congregation,
what can they do to encourage their pastors?
Clint: There's nothing like a confirming word.
The tongue of the righteous is a tree of life.
So to tell a pastor, "I was really helped
by this thought you had in your sermon.
Thank you for that."
That's uplifting.
I've gotten cards from people
in my congregation.
I've had ladies show up at my front door
with a plant that they bought,
a flower that they bought
that was on sale and give it to me.
It's very uplifting along with
a little card of appreciation.
My congregation has been very supportive
and they love me.
I've never doubted that.
They've been behind me.
They have acknowledged difficulties
and that's a thing that helps a pastor.
If someone comes up
and puts their arm on your shoulder
and says brother, I know that you're
going through a hard time.
I don't have any real solution
to what you're going through.
And I don't know it as sharply as you do,
but I recognize that you're going through
a hard time right now
and I want you to know I'm praying for you.
That's very confirming and uplifting.
And I've gotten that from my congregation.
The seasons that we've gone though,
and oftentimes it's the case,
I've talked to other pastors.
The seasons they go through,
there is a difficulty that's very narrow
and it's surrounding a small
either incident or a small group of people
and that's where the burden is at.
Ten percent are drawing 90% of the pastor's
energy and attention.
All the others are very supportive.
They're kind of in the background
and they're not causing any trouble.
Those are the ones that I regret
that I've not been able to minister to
during those seasons where my mind
is drawn in to a very pointed,
narrow situation.
But they've been supportive.
They've recognized it
and have helped me with cards
and things like that.
James: Do members of a church
have responsibility to alert the pastors
when they see divisions arising in the church?
I mean, how important is communication
of the sheep with the shepherds
in order to maintain unity in the church?
Clint: Well, when there's a report
given to a pastor,
it's very much different
than one person reporting to another person
in the congregation.
And I'm thinking along the lines
of gossip or slander - things like that
that are not good.
But nonetheless, there are times
when a pastor may be oblivious
to something that's going on in the church
and it could be very helpful
in heading it off at the pass
or dealing with it before it becomes a major issue
for him to know that.
I think of the Apostle Paul.
1 Corinthians 1.
We've been informed by Chloe's people
that divisions exist he said there.
I think that's how he worded it.
So here was a case where someone -
Chloe's people -
came to the apostle and alerted him
something was going on.
In another place, "it's been reported
that there's immorality among you,"
he said in 1 Corinthians 5.
And another place, 1 Corinthians 11,
he speaks about another report of division.
So there are occasions when that is helpful
and I think maybe a duty.
Someone might be duty bound
to say something to the pastor.
But there's a fine line between
tattle-taling or being a gossip.
So we'd have to definitely be on guard against that.
James: In these last few years,
what have you learned from the trials
you've faced as a pastor?
Is there anything you look back on and think
I should have handled that differently?
Clint: Well, I don't know about specific things
that I could relate.
But I do know in a general way
I'm always second-guessing myself.
I'm always looking back saying
did I do right here? Did I not?
And my wife is very helpful
in helping me talk through things like that
as well as other men.
But it's difficult to know
when you're in the middle of it
what you should do; what you shouldn't do.
You can receive outside counsel
in the case of a single pastor,
but it's a general counsel
because the men you receive that counsel from
are not a part of your church.
They don't know the personalities.
They might not know the issue at all
in a very real way.
They're not involved in it -
the subtleties of it.
And so the counsel is general
and the decision falls to the man who's there.
And it's easy to look back on it in the past
and say, you know, I should have done this.
I shouldn't have done that.
There are times when I've let meetings
between individuals happen
that I had not been a part of.
I elected to stay out of that meeting,
that particular meeting,
and just let the couples work it out
or something like that.
And I looked back to regret that,
that I hadn't been there.
But who's to know?
I couldn't be faulted at the time
for doing that I don't think.
But it's something maybe in the future
I would be more cautious about.
I might have done it differently.
Sometimes a person might let something
go on longer than it needs to.
And as a result, more damage done.
Who knows?
Those are difficult decisions.
I tend to try and take the least invasive,
the least heavy-handed approach
that I can as a pastor.
It just seems to be my philosophy I guess.
Not shirking duty, of course.
There's a real duty that a man has
to confront sin and so on.
But if there's an issue that's brewing
or that's going on,
I try and take at first -
in the initial steps anyway -
as least heavy-handed approach as I can.
I liken it to a fire in a skillet on the oven.
In the stove in the kitchen,
an oil fire crops up in the skillet.
There are a number of ways you can put it out.
You can grab a pitcher of water
and douse it.
I mean, it might put it out, but it might spread it.
It splatters and goes everywhere.
They say you're not supposed to do that.
You might grab the dry chemical fire extinguisher and spray it.
You'll get it out, but it will make a huge mess
that will take a whole day to clean out of your kitchen.
Or you can reach over and take the lid.
Set the lid gently on there
and snuff it out.
You see?
There's least environmental impact.
I tend to start out that way.
And sometimes, it might let things
go on longer than they need to be.
When that happens, it's unfortunate.
You look back on it and you say,
well, it's proven out.
I should have done things differently.
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