YOU CALL HIM AND HE GOES, I'M AT
THE AIRPORT JOE, GOING BACK TO
BOSTON.
THAT'S WHAT BORIS NEEDED TO DO
THERE.
>>> THERE'S A NEW PIECE ENTITLED
MEANWHILE WATCH CHINA IN THE
PACIFIC, AND WITH THE WORLD
FOCUSED ON UKRAINE, BAD ACTORS
IN ASIA ARE ON THE MARCH.
THE EDITORIAL BOARD WRITES IN
PART CHINA KEEPS EXPANDING ITS
MILITARY REACH IN THE PACIFIC.
BEIJING HAS FULLY MILITARIZED
THREE ISLANDS IT BUILT IN THE
SOUTH CHINA SEA, AND CHINA COULD
BE NEGOTIATEING A DEAL WITH
DOCUMENTS THAT APPEARS TO BE
LEAKED FROM THE ISLAND
GOVERNMENT.
THE DEAL COULD LEAD TO CHINESE
FORCES DEPLOYED IN THE SOUTH
PACIFIC NATION, A FEW HOURS OF
FLIGHT TIME FROM AUSTRALIA.
A MILITARY BASE WITH DEFENSIVE
CAPABILITIES COULD FOLLOW.
MEANWHILE THE CHINESE FOREIGN
MINISTER DROPPED BY KABUL ON
TUESDAY TO MEET WITH TALIBAN OFFICIALS.
CHINA HAS NO CALMS.
THIS IS THE WAY THE WORLD WORKS,
TROUBLE IN ONE THEATER PROVIDES
INCENTIVE FOR OTHER ROGUES TO
CREATE TROUBLE WHILE OTHER
DEMOCRACIES ARE PREOCCUPIED, AND
BOY, ARE THEY RIGHT NOW.
THE AUTHOR OF THE NEW BOOK "THE
AVOIDABLE WAR: THE DANGERS OF
THE CATASTROPHIC CONFLICT
BETWEEN THE U.S. AND XI
JINPING'S CHINA."
AND ALSO JOINING US IS WALTER
ISAKSON.
IS CHINA TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE
SITUATION?
>> CHINA IS DEEPLY CONCERNED
ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON UKRAINE, BECAUSE THEY GOT OUT AHEAD OF
BECAUSE THEY GOT OUT AHEAD OF
THEIR OWN SKIS HERE, AND THEY
ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE COLLATERAL
DAMAGE FOR THEMSELVES IN THE
EYES OF THE EUROPEANS, AND
THEREFORE THEY WILL WATCH
DEVELOPMENTS DAY BY DAY ON THE
GROUND IN UKRAINE TO WORK OUT
WHAT TO DO NEXT.
AT THE SAME TIME CHINESE STATE
CRAFT IS ACTIVE IN THE REST OF
THE WORLD, AND YOUR REPORT JUST
NOW IS ACCURATE AND IT'S NOT FAR
FROM MY OWN COUNTRY, AND YOU
WILL SEE CONTINUED CHINESE
ACTIVITY IN THE ENDO PACIFIC.
>> MR. PRIME MINISTER, YOU HAVE
HAD A CLOSER LOOK GEOPOLITICALLY
AT CHINA'S EXPANSIONISM UNDER
PRESIDENT XI.
WHAT WARNING DO YOU DELIVER TO
THE UNITED STATES IN YOUR BOOK?
>> THE BOTTOM LINE IS, XI
JINPING'S WORLD VIEW HAS CHANGED
CHINA, AND THE TAKEOFF POINT
STARTING WITH XI JINPING'S
ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN SHARP
AND ACUTE.
EVERY REGION OF THE WORLD HAS
BEEN FEELING THE IMPACT OF
CHINA'S ECONOMIC POWER, AND
THEIR INFLUENCE AND ITS MILITARY
PRESENCE AS WELL.
THEREFORE, THE UNITED STATES,
WHICH IS THE LEADER OF THE FREE
WORLD, THE IMPORTANCE OF HAVING
NOT JUST A CO HERE UPT
BIPARTISAN LONG-TERM AMERICAN
STRATEGY FOR DEALING WITH CHINA
AND CHINA'S RISE, BUT IT NEEDS
TO DO SO IN PARTNERSHIP WITH
ALLIES IN ASIA AND IN EUROPE.
IN PART, THE BOOK DEALS WITH
THAT, AS WELL AS HOW TO NAVIGATE
THE DANGEROUS DECADE AHEAD THAT
FLIES WITH CHINA, PARTICULARLY
ON TAIWAN.
>> MR. PRIME MINISTER, I AGREE
WITH YOU IN NEEDING A BIPARTISAN
APPROACH, AND I HATE TO ASK YOU
A QUESTION THAT SOME MAY
CONSIDER TO BE PARTISAN, BUT
THERE ARE MANY AMERICANS THAT
WERE HORRIFIED BY DONALD TRUMP'S
TREATMENT OF OUR AUSTRALIAN
ALLIES.
YOU ALL HAVE BEEN OUR MOST LOYAL
AND FAITHFUL FRIENDS, AND
HOPEFULLY WE HAVE BEEN LOYAL AND
FAITHFUL TO YOU OVER THE PAST
100 YEARS.
I AM CURIOUS.
HAS AUSTRALIA MOVED PAST THAT
CHAPTER?
DO YOU FEEL LIKE THE UNITED
STATES IS A BETTER FRIEND TODAY
THAN IT WAS A FEW YEARS AGO?
>> THE FEW, I THINK, ABOUT ASIAN
AND EUROPEAN ALLIES, AND I SPEAK
TO THEM ALL IN MY CURRENT THINK
TANK HERE IN THE UNITED STATES,
IS WHEN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION
SAYS AMERICA IS BACK, ACTUALLY
THAT IS THE CASE.
THE ALLIANCE BRIDGES HAVE BEEN
REBUILT TO BRUSSELS.
WE HAVE BEEN WATCHING TODAY THE
RECEPTION WHICH PRESIDENT BIDEN
HAS BEEN RECEIVING IN HIS VISIT
TO NATO AND THE EUROPE UNION AND
OTHERS, AND THE SAME IN
AUSTRALIA AND THE SAME IN JAPAN
AND THE SAME IN THE REPUBLIC OF
KOREA.
THE ALLIANCE REBUILDING HAS
HAPPENED.
WHAT IS NOW NEEDED IS THIS
CONTINUED, AS IT WOULD,
DEVELOPMENT OF A STRATEGY TO
DEAL WITH CHINA'S RISE.
RUSSIA HAS BEEN A PARTNER OF
CHINA IN THAT.
>> MR. PRIME MINISTER I WANT TO
GET YOU ON TWO MATTERS.
FIRST, YOU WERE PART OF THE
FORMULATION OF THE G20.
WE HEARD PRESIDENT BIDEN CALL
FOR RUSSIA TO BE REMOVED FROM
THE ORGANIZATION AND HE
ACKNOWLEDGED THAT COULD BE TOUGH
BECAUSE THEY HAVE VETO POWER,
AND THEN THE TIE BETWEEN CHINA
AND BEIJING, AND WE KNOW CHINA
IS WATCHING THE DEVELOPMENT OF
THE WAR IN UKRAINE.
IS THERE A TIME WHEN YOU COULD
SEE CHINA HELPING RUSSIA WITH
SUPPLIES, AND AT WHAT POINT WILL
XI JINPING ANSWER BIDEN'S CALL
AND CUT RUSSIA LOOSE.
>> IT'S TECHNICALLY NOT A
GEOPOLITICAL INTEPEA.ENTITY.
BUT HOW DO YOU TREAT RUSSIA AS A
NORMAL STATE RIGHT NOW GIVEN ITS
BRUTAL INVASION OF ANOTHER
STATE, NEXT DOOR TO IT, AND THE
WAR CRIMES WE SEE UNFOLDING ON
OUR TELEVISION SCREENS EACH DAY?
SO AS A CO FOUNDER OF THE G20
MYSELF, BACK IN 2009 WITH
PRESIDENT OBAMA, WE STILL HAVE
CONTINUING GLOBAL FINANCIAL
CHALLENGES AND THEY WILL
CONTINUE THROUGH THIS YEAR AND
NEXT.
WE DON'T WANT TO TRASH THE
INSTITUTION.
IT TOOK A LONG TIME AND
DIPLOMATIC EFFORT TO CREATE IT.
BUT ON BALANCE I SUPPORT
PRESIDENT BIDEN'S VIEW.
I DO NOT SEE HOW WE COULD HAVE A NORMAL CONVERSATION AMONG STATES
NORMAL CONVERSATION AMONG STATES
WITH ONE THAT HAS BEEN SO BRUTAL
BRUTALLY VIOLENT IN UKRAINE.
WILL CHINA BACK AWAY FROM
RUSSIA, OR COULD IT GO FORWARD
AND PROVIDE VLADIMIR PUTIN WITH
MATERIAL FINANCIAL AND MILITARY
ASSISTANCE?
THE CHINESE FEAR THE IMPACT OF
THE UNITED STATES' SANCTIONS
AGAINST ITSELF WILL ACT IN
EITHER SCORE.
AND HERE WE ARE FOUR WEEKS INTO
THE WAR, AND CHINA SO FAR BASED
ON MY INFORMATION, HAS NOT
VIOLATED THE U.S. SANCTIONS YET
AGAINST MOSCOW, AND THEREFORE IT
WOULD TAKE A BRAVE MOVE INDEED
TO CROSS THAT THRESHOLD AND EVEN
THE MILITARY THRESHOLD DESPITE
RUSSIA'S REQUEST OF XI JINPING
TO HELP.
>> AND YOU WRITE IN THE BOOK
IT'S MY JUDGMENT THAT XI JINPING
IS LIKELY TO SEEK TO USE
MILITARY MEANS TO RECOVER TAIWAN
IF, IN FACT, POLITICAL MEANS
FAIL.
YOU SAY HE VIEWS HIMSELF MUCH
LIKE VLADIMIR PUTIN, AS A MAN OF
HISTORY AND PART OF HIS LEGACY
WOULD BE TO BRING TAIWAN TO
HEAL.
DO YOU BELIEVE IT'S INEVITABLE
THAT CHINA WILL USE MILITARY
POWER TO TAKE TAIWAN? >> IT'S ALWAYS TROUBLING WHEN A
>> IT'S ALWAYS TROUBLING WHEN A
LEADER THINKS OF HIS MAN AS A
THAT.
UNDER XI JINPING, IT'S CLEAR
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE TEXT THAT
THEY PUT OUT DOMESTICALLY FOR
THEIR OWN POLITICAL CLASS TO
CONSUME THAT UNDER XI JINPING'S
LEADERSHIP, THEY ARE MOVING
TOWARDS A TIMETABLE TO RECOVER
TAIWAN LATEST BY 2049, AND
CONCEIVABLY BY 2035, AND
MILITARILY PROBABLY SEE
THEMSELVES IN A POSITION TO DO
SO BY THE END OF THIS DECADE OR
EARLY IN THE NEXT, THEREFORE THE
CHINESE WILL BE WATCHING WITH
RAZOR-SHARP LENDS WHAT HAPPENS
ON THE GROUND IN UKRAINE,
BECAUSE AFTER ALL, THAT'S A
LAND-BASED OPERATION.
IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN, IN THE
CHINESE MILITARY'S VIEW,
RELATIVELY STRAIGHTFORWARD FOR
PUTIN.
TAKING TAIWAN IS A MASSIVE
AMPHIBIOUS OPERATION THAT WOULD
MAKE THE D-DAY LANDINGS LOOK
LIKE A CAKEWALK.
>> ALL RIGHT.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH
US.
WE ARE HONORED AND WE GREATLY
APPRECIATE IT.
THE NEW BOOK IS "THE AVOIDABLE