Rockets over Kyiv,
even as leaders from seven
African nations
arrived in the Ukrainian capital
as part of a peace mission.
The African delegation,
which includes South
African President Cyril Ramaphosa,
will meet with Ukraine's
Volodymyr Zelensky today
before heading to Russia
for talks with Russian
President Vladimir Putin. On Saturday.
Sam Kiley joins me now live from Kiev.
What do you make about the timing
of these latest missiles, Sam?
Well,
I think it could indicate
one of two things,
to be honest, Max.
The first is
that the Russians are prosecuting
a military agenda
without regard
for the diplomatic fallout,
if you'll excuse the pun,
of firing missiles into a capital city
at a time when heads of government
ministers and heads of state
indeed
are visiting from an important continent
that the Kremlin itself
is trying to court
or they're sending a message
to those African leaders
that they are trying to call,
that they just don't matter.
Because in the past,
there's been a bit of an understanding
that when major world
dignitaries, heads of government,
heads of state
come to Kiev, the Russians appear
to ease off in terms of their strikes.
But that wasn't the case
last night with them firing.
Among other things, six kinds of missiles
which were brought down,
one assumes, by Patriot missiles.
The Germans have just announced
they're going to give an extra
40 missiles, not missile systems,
but 40 missiles
to replenish the stocks
that are fast dwindling
for the Ukrainians.
There are other pledges, of course,
coming from other allies,
but the Africans in particular,
the form of South African
President Cyril Ramaphosa,
have been very close to the Kremlin
in many ways.
Recently with joint military exercises
with South Africa.
South African
head of the armed forces visiting Moscow,
the Sergei Lavrov,
the South African foreign minister,
attending a meeting,
diplomatic meetings
in South Africa
and the United States
accusing South Africa
of effectively supplying arms bribery in
breach of an arms
embargo potentially against Russia.
So all of this
adding up to what should have been
rather cordial relations
and therefore an easing off
of the air
strikes against the African leaders
that have come here.
But we saw the exact reverse, Max.
A lot of African leaders, obviously,
I'm used to being lectured by the
by the West
on how to handle their own conflicts.
How do you think they're going
into these talks
and what sort of solutions
do you think they'll be suggesting
Well, from a benign perspective,
if one puts aside for a second
the fact that
many of these African leaders
are schooled
in the history of the Cold War,
as we all are of a certain age,
and therefore understand
that they can play Russia,
what was the Soviet Union now
Russia off
against Western interests
to their own advantage.
So there may be some advantage
that they're prosecuting there.
But these are also people
who have experience
in many cases of conflicts themselves.
The South Africans, of course, emerge
from the conflict that was apartheid.
Others among them have either been in
or even enduring the effects of civil war
in the past or international war.
So they have a lot of experience.
Their proposals, though,
are the sorts of proposals that,
among other things,
they're very close
really to the international view,
to the Ukrainian view,
which is there
should be
a complete Russian withdrawal
from the territories
that they've illegally occupied
in this country.
That is going to be
what inevitably will be rejected
by Russia.
But they're hoping perhaps
that because of their
role enabled in that
they're able to talk to both sides.
Perhaps they can achieve a breakthrough
that clearly
has been somewhat undermined
by a missile attack
against the capital that they're visiting
when they were scheduled to meet
with the country's president.
They may be a little bit anxious
that perhaps they may be targeted,
along with President
Zelensky later on today.
Perhaps
the Kremlin says Putin supports
any set of ideas and conflict in Ukraine.
What do you think he meant by that
and how will it be received where you are
Well,
he doesn't
support the idea
that he should unilaterally withdraw
from Ukraine
because he doesn't believe that
Ukraine has a right to exist.
So it's not really going to get anywhere
in the discussions.
There are no discussions.
There's no prospect
whatsoever of the Ukrainians
joining
any kind of diplomatic initiative.
That doesn't begin
with a total withdrawal
of every single Russian soldier
from every inch of Ukrainian territory.
That is their position right now.
That is a position
that their NATO's partners
are full throated in their support of.
Whether that's a position
that prevails over the over
the next few years,
depending on how this war goes,
I think will be open to question.
But they are intent on
driving the Russians
out of their territory.
They've launched
this counteroffensive
heavy fighting in the southeast,
as you said there, Max,
and in the east,
that is expected to increase.
There is increasing amount of support
coming from NATO's partners
to allow that counteroffensive
by the Ukrainians to be prosecuted.
There is a hope among the allies
that the Russians will be driven out.
There's also criticism
of those allies
that they always supply
too little, too late,
that they're not really giving
the Ukrainians
the strategic edge, at least not yet Max.
Okay.
Sam Kiley,
thanks for joining us from Keith.