UKRAINE, ESPECIALLY IN BUCHA.
A WARNING THAT SOME OF THE
IMAGES PROVIDED BY UKRAINE ARE
GRAPHIC.
THE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS
HAS TOLD CONGRESS THIS WILL
LIKELY LAST YEARS, THIS WAR.
A PROTRACTED WAR IS GOING TO
LAST YEARS, ACCORDING TO THE
CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS.
WILL TODAY'S NEW COMMITMENT OF
JAVELINS, ANTITANK WEAPONS TO
UKRAINE SHORTEN THAT TIME?
>> ANDREA, WE WANT TO SEE THIS
COME TO AN END AS QUICKLY AS
POSSIBLE AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE
MAKING SURE WE ARE DOING
EVERYTHING WE CAN TO SUPPORT
UKRAINE AND GIVE THEM THE
AISSISTENCE THEY NEED TO PUT
PRESSURE AND TO INCREASE
PRESSURE ON RUSSIA, EVEN AS
WE'RE STRENGTH ISSENING THE
DEFENSES OF OUR NATO ALLIANCE.
>> SO, WHAT ABOUT THE JAVELINS?
>> THE PRESIDENT AUTHORIZED
ANOTHER $100 MILLION IN A
DRAWDOWN THAT WILL PROVIDE MORE
JAVELINS TO OUR UKRAINIAN
PARTNERS.
BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND
OTHER ALLIES AND PARTNERS,
FRAEVERY RUSSIAN TANK IN UKRAINE
WE HAVE PROVIDED OR WILL SOON
PROVIDE, TEN ANTITANK SYSTEMS.
TEN FOR EVERY RUSSIAN TANK.
IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY NEED TO
ACT QUICKLY AND EFFECTIVELY, TO
DEAL WITH THE PLANES THAT ARE
FIRING AT THEM FROM THE SKIES,
THE TANKS THAT ARE ARE TRYING TO
DESTROY THEIR CITIES FROM THE
GROUND, THEY HAVE THE TOOLS THAT
THEY NEED.
THEY'RE GOING TO KEEP GETTING
THEM AND WE'RE GOING TO KEEP
SUSTAINING THAT.
TO THE CHAIRMAN'S POINT AND THE
PRESIDENT SAID THIS AS WELL.
AS MUCH AS WE WANT TO SEE IT
COME TO AN END AS SOON AS
POSSIBLE TO STOP THE DEATH AND
DESTRUCTION BEING WROUGHT BY
RUSSIA AND UKRAINE.
THERE'S A LIKELY SCENARIO WHERE
THIS GOES ON FOR SOME TIME.
THE RUSSIANS, THEY'VE RETREATED
FROM KYIV, FROM THE NORTH AND
THE WEST.
THEY'RE CONSOLIDATING FORCES IN
THE EAST IN THE DONBAS.
THEY HAVE A LOT OF FORCE STILL
LEFT.
THE YOU YANIANS HAVE SOMETHING
ELSE ULTIMATELY STRONGER AND
THAT IS A FIERCE DETERMINATION
AND WILL TO DEFEND THEIR COUNTRY
WITH THE SUPPORT OF MANY
COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD.
>> CAN THEY WIN?
>> SO, ULTIMATELY, YES, BECAUSE
WHAT IS SUCCESS?
WHAT IS VICTORY?
IT'S HOLDING ON TO THE
SOVEREIGNTY AND INDEPENDENCE OF
THEIR COUNTRY.
AND THERE IS NO SQUENAIRIO BY
WHICH, OVER TIME, THAT WILL NOT
HAPPEN.
THE PROBLEM IS IT MAY TAKE TIME.
AND IN THE MEANTIME, TREMENDOUS
DEATH AND DESTRUCTION.
BUT WHAT IS SO POWERFUL HERE IS
THAT THE UKRAINIANS HAVE MADE IT
VERY CLEAR THEY WILL NOT
SUBJUGATE THEM SELVES TO
VLADIMIR PUTIN'S WILL.
>> NO MATTER HOW MUCH WE GIVE
THEM, HOW CAN UKRAINE EVER LAST
AGAINST RUSSIA FOR THE LONG
TERM?
UNLESS THE U.S. AND OTHER
COUNTRIES GUARANTEE ITS BORDERS,
ITS SAFETY AS PRESIDENT
ZELENSKYY WANTS?
>> THE FIRST THING IS TO SEE
THIS AGGRESSION BY RUSSIA COMES
TO AN END.
THAT THERE IS A CEASEFIRE THAT
RUSSIA WITHDRAWS FORCES, THAT
UKRAINE ASSERTS ITS SOVEREIGNTY
AND ITS INDEPENDENCE.
BUT THEN, YES, WE HAVE TO DO
THINGS TO MAKE SURE THAT, TO THE
BEST OF OUR ABILITY THIS CAN'T
HAPPEN AGAIN.
RUSSIA IS DETERRED, UKRAINE IS
DEFENDED.
WE'RE HAVING CONSTANT
CONVERSATIONS.
>> WILL THE U.S. GET MORE
INVOLVED.
>> CONSTANT CONVERSATIONS WITH
OUR UKRAINIAN PARTNERS PRETTY
MUCH ON A DAILY BASIS, INCLUDING
ABOUT WHAT IT IS WE AND OTHERS
COULD DO IN THE EVENT OF A
SUCCESSFUL NEGOTIATION TO DEFEND
THEM AND HELP THEM DEFEND
THEMSELVES GOING FORWARD.
ALL OF THIS IS THE SUBJECT OF
CONVERSATIONS RIGHT NOW.
WE'RE GOING TO DO EVERYTHING WE
CAN AND OTHERS WILL DO WHAT THEY
CAN TO MAKE SURE UKRAINE CAN
DEFEND ITSELF AND DETER RUSSIA
AGGRESSION BEING REPEATED BY
RUSSIA.
>> HE SAYS HE WANTS TO RE-CREATE
THE GLORY OF THE SOVIET UNION.
HOW CAN UKRAINE EVER BE SAFE AS
LONG AS PUTIN'S IN POWER?
>> TWO THINGS.
FIRST, IN TERMS OF WHAT RUSSIA
SET OUT TO DO IN UKRAINE, THIS
HAS ALREADY BEEN A STRATEGIC
SETBACK, IF NOT A FAILURE.
KEEP IN MIND THAT THE GOAL THAT
PUTIN SAID IN HIS OWN WORDS WAS
TO ELIMINATE UKRAINE'S
SOVEREIGNTY AND INDEPENDENCE.
HE SEES IT AS A STATE THAT
DOESN'T DESERVE TO BE
INDEPENDENT.
NEEDS TO BE SUBSUMED BACK TO A
GREATER RUSSIA.
THAT IS NOT HAPPENING.
NOT JUST THE RETREAT FROM KYIV
BUT NO MATTER HOW YOU PLAY THIS
OUT, THE UKRAINIANS ARE ARE NOT
GOING TO SUBJECT THEMSELVES TO A
RUSSIAN DICTATORSHIP.
>> HE'S MORE POPULAR THAN EVER
AT HOME.
>> SO, HE MAY BE FOR NOW MORE
POPULAR.
IF YOU WERE GETTING FED A STEADY
DIET, MORNING, NOON AND NIGHT OF
PROPAGANDA, WHICH THE RUSSIAN
PEOPLE ARE, THAT SPEAKS TO WHAT
POPULARITY HE HAS.
AT THE SAME TIME, WHEN PEOPLE
ARE RESPONDING TO POLES, THEY
MAY BE VERY MUCH AFRAID OF
GIVING A TRUTHFUL ANSWER.
THERE'S A 15-YEAR CRIMINAL
PENALTY FOR ANYONE WHO IN ANY
WAY OPPOSES THE SPECIAL MILITARY
OPERATION.
HAVING SAID THAT, I THINK
THERE'S A FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM
WHICH IS THE RUSSIANS DON'T GET
THE FACTUAL INFORMATION THEY
NEED TO MAKE JUDGMENTS FOR
THEMSELVES AND THAT'S BECAUSE OF
A SYSTEM VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS
PERFECTED IN WHICH THAT
INFORMATION IS DENIED THEM.
>> PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS CALLED
PUTIN A BUTCHER, A WAR CRIMINAL.
YOU HAVE SAID THE PEOPLE
RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES IN
BUCHA AND THOSE WHO ORDERED THEM
WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> HOW CAN THAT HAPPEN WITHOUT
SLATD MERE PUTIN STANDING TRIAL?
>> FIRST, ANDREA, THE WHEELS OF
ACCOUNTABILITY MOVE SLOWLY BUT
THEY MOVE.
AND SOME DAY, SOME WAY,
SOMEWHERE THOSE WHO COMMITTED
THESE CRIMES AND THOSE WHO
ORDERED THE CRIMES WILL BE HELD
ACCOUNTABLE.
BUT IT TAKES TIME.
AND PART OF THIS IS BUILDING THE
CASE.
PART OF -- WHICH WE'RE DOING.
AND OTHERS ARE DOING.
THERE'S A UKRAINIAN SPECIAL
PROSECUTOR WHO IS WORKING ON
THIS.
WE'RE SUPPORTING HER EFFORTS.
WE SET UP, AT THE UNITED NATIONS
AT THE HUMAN RIGHTS COUNSEL A
COMMISSION OF INQUIRY LOOKING
INTO THIS AS WELL.
WE'RE SUPPORTING THOSE EFFORTS,
BUILDING THE CASE, DOCUMENTING
IT.
THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT
IS LOOKING AT THIS TOO.
BUT ALL OF THIS WILL PLAY OUT
OVER TIME AND WE HAVE TO BUILD
THE CASE, GET THE EVIDENCE,
DOCUMENT IT.
WE'RE DOING ALL OF THAT.
SO, IS THAT NEXT MONTH, NEXT
YEAR, IN FIVE YEARS?
IT COULD TAKE TIME BUT I THINK I
CAN GUARANTEE YOU THERE WILL BE
A RELENT WLSZERT TO MAKE SURE
THOSE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT WE'RE
SEE RG HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING, ANDREA,
IS I THINK BEYOND WHAT ANY OF US
EVEN COULD FULLY ANTICIPATE.
WE SAID BEFORE RUSSIA COMMITTED
THE AGGRESSION THAT THERE WOULD
BE ATROCITIES.
IT WAS A DELIBERATE PART OF
THEIR CAMPAIGN.
AND EVEN KNOWING THAT, WHEN THE
RUSSIAN TIDE RECEDED FROM BUCHA
AND WE SAW THE DEATH AND
DESTRUCTION IN ITS WAKE AND WHAT
THAT LOOKED LIKE, INCLUDING
PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN
ASSASSINATED, IN EFFECT.
EXECUTED.
THEIR HANDS TIED BEHIND THEIR
BACKS.
THE ABUSE COMMITTED AGAINST
WOMEN, CHILDREN.
IT'S HORRIFIC AND THERE HAS TO
BE ACCOUNTABILITY FOR IT.
>> DID YOU SEE THE VIDEO
PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY PROVIDED TO
THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHER
IMAGES FROM BUCHA AS YOU
DESCRIBE IT, THE ATROCITIES.
WHAT DO YOU TELL YOUR CHILDREN?
WHAT WOULD YOU TELL THEM?
>> THANKFULLY THEY'RE TOO SMALL
TO ACTUALLY SEE IT AND DIGEST
IT.
>> BUT SOME DAY THEY WILL.
>> AND I HAVE TO TELL YOU AND I
SUSPECT MOST OF US HAVE THE SAME
REACTION, ESPECIALLY THOSE OF US
WITH CHILDREN OR SMALL CHILDREN.
YOU PUT YOURSELF IN THE SHOES OF
THE FATHER, THE MOTHER, THE
GRANDFATHER, THE GRANDMOTHER
WHO'S IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS, WHO
IS SUFFERING THIS, WHO'S KIDS'
LIVES ARE AT STAKE OR IN
JEOPARDY OR WHO HAVE BEEN LOST
AND IT HITS YOU -- I SAID THE
OTHER DAY.
SEEING THE IMAGES FROM BUCHA WAS
LIKE A PUNCH TO THE GUT.
IT TAKES THE WIND OUT OF YOU.
YOU CAN KNOW SOMETHING
INTELLECTUALLY BUT THEN WHEN YOU
SEE THESE IMAGES AND YOU
TRANSLATE THAT INTO YOUR OWN
LIFE, WHEN YOU ASK YOURSELF WHAT
IF THIS WAS HAPPENING IN MY TOWN
TO MY KIDS, TO MY FAMILY?
I THINK IT ONLY REINFORCES OUR
DETERMINATION TO DO EVERYTHING
WE CAN TO SUPPORT THE
UKRAINIANS, PUT PRESSURE ON
RUSSIA TO BRING THIS TO AN END
AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.
>> YOUR U.N. AMBASSADOR
DESCRIBED THE AND COMPARED IT BY
EXTENSION TO THE HOLOCAUST.
TALKED ABOUT WHAT THE COUNSEL OF
MARIUPOL HAVE DESCRIBED.
PEOPLE FORCIBLY, 10S OF
THOUSANDS TAKEN FROM THEIR HOMES
TO RUSSIA AND PUT IN CAMPS.
ISN'T THAT THE VERY DEFINITION
OF GENOCIDE?
>> WE HAVE TO GET ALL OF THE
INFORMATION, ALL OF THE
EVIDENCE.
AS I SAID DOCUMENT EVERYTHING
THAT'S HAPPENED FULLY UNDERSTAND
WHAT'S HAPPENED.
IT'S AN INTERESTING IRONY, IN A
SENSE.
THIS IS, IN SOME WAYS, THE MOST
DOCUMENTED WAR IN REAL TIME
WE'VE EXPERIENCED BECAUSE OF
TECHNOLOGY, SMART PHONES AND THE
INCREDIBLE COURAGE OF REPORTERS
WHO HAVE REMAINED IN UKRAINE.
BUT EVEN SO, THE THINGS WE'RE
NOT SEEING IN REAL TIME,
INCLUDING BUCHA.
AND IT'S ONLY WHEN THE TIDE
RESEEDS THAT WE SEE WHAT'S
HAPPENED.
I'M AFRAID WHAT WE'RE GOING TO
LEARN IS EVEN MORE HORRIFYING.
>> DO WE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT
WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE RUSSIAN
CAMPS WITH UKRAINIANS?
AND DO WE HAVE HOPE OF GETTING
THEM BACK?
>> WE DON'T HAVE GOOD
INFORMATION ON THAT.