>> IT'S AN ASPECT OF THE WAR
IN UKRAINE THAT YOU CAN SEE ON
YOUR TV SCREENS. A SHADOW WAR
TAKING PLACE ONLINE BETWEEN
RUSSIAN AND UKRAINIAN HACKERS.
EXPERTS SAY IT'S HAVING A REAL
EFFECT ON THE BATTLEFIELD.
JOINING US NOW IS NBC NEWS
NATIONAL SECURITY
CORRESPONDENT KEN DILANIAN.
KEN, FIRST OF ALL, TELL US
MORE ABOUT THE STRATEGY OF
THESE UKRAINIAN HACKERS. WHO
ARE THEY TARGETING AND HAVE
THEY BEEN AND WHY THEY'VE BEEN
SO SUCCESSFUL. GOOD MORNING TO
ALL OF THESE ARE UKRAINIAN
GOVERNMENT INTELLIGENCE
OFFICERS AND THEY ARE
SOMEWHERE IN KIEV RIGHT NOW.
EVERY DAY HACKING TARGETS IN
RUSSIA AND WHAT THEY'RE DOING
IS THEY'RE NOT TRYING TO
DESTROY TARGETS. THEY'RE
TRYING TO STEAL INFORMATION
AND THEY ARE PUBLISHING ON THE
WEB IN AN EFFORT TO PUT
PRESSURE ON RUSSIA.
>> I SPOKE TO GEOFFREY CARR A
CYBERSECURITY EXPERT WHO'S
BEEN IN REGULAR TOUCH WITH
THESE HACKERS. TAKE A LISTEN
TO HOW HE DESCRIBED WHAT'S
GOING ON.
>> THEY WANT RUSSIA TO KNOW
THAT THEY'RE NOT SAFE. THEY'RE
NOT SAFE FROM CYBERSECURITY
ATTACKS AGAINST SYSTEMS
AGAINST INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY,
AGAINST A HIGH VALUE AGAIN,
SIR. MOST PROUD ACHIEVEMENTS
ARE ALL OPEN TO ATTACK BY UKRAINIAN HACKERS. SO I'M 5
UKRAINIAN HACKERS. SO I'M 5
MINUTES. AND I THINK THAT'S
THEY'VE BEEN SUCCESSFUL I
THINK SO FAR IT HAS BEEN A
HAVING A DEMORALIZING EFFECT
WILL CONTINUE UNTIL RUSSIA
STOPS.
>> NOW. JOE, YOU MAY HAVE ALSO
SEEN REPORTS THAT THERE ARE
HACKTIVISTS BOTH IN UKRAINE
AND ELSEWHERE WHO ARE ALSO
HACKING RUSSIAN SYSTEMS
YESTERDAY THERE WAS A REPORT
THAT THE GROUP ANONYMOUS
BREACHED THE RUSSIAN CENTRAL
BANK. WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO
CONFIRM THAT. BUT THAT'S ALSO
GOING ON. BUT THIS IS
DIFFERENT. THIS IS THE
UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT DOING
THIS JOB. SO CAN I UNDERSTAND
THAT? SO FAR THE UKRAINIAN
HACKING GROUPS HAVE BEEN
ENGAGED IN ANY DESTRUCTIVE
CYBERATTACKS AGAINST RUSSIA.
WHY IS THAT? BECAUSE THEY
DON'T WANT TO ASK ALI IS WHAT
THIS EXPERT JEFFREY CARR AND
OTHERS ARE TELLING US BECAUSE
THEY BELIEVE THAT THE RUSSIANS
COULD ALSO DESTROY SOME OF
THEIR NETWORKS. AND THIS IS A
SORT OF A CAT AND MOUSE GAME.
THEY'RE SENDING A MESSAGE TO
THE RUSSIANS WERE INSIDE YOUR
NETWORKS, BUT THEY DON'T JUST
AS THEY HAVEN'T TRIED TO BOMB
TARGETS IN RUSSIA WITH THEIR
WITH THEIR PLANES. THEY ARE
NOT ESCALATING. THEY ARE
DEFENDING THEMSELVES JOB AND
CAN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE
COIN. RUSSIAN HACKERS ARE
NOTORIOUS WORLD. WHY THEY
TARGETED THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF
THE U.S. GOVERNMENT JUST
YESTERDAY FEDERAL PROSECUTORS
UNSEALED 2 INDICTMENTS THAT
CHARGED FOR RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT
EMPLOYEES IN HACKING
CONSPIRACY. SO HOW IS UKRAINE
BEEN ABLE TO FEND OFF RUSSIAN
ADVANCES SO FAR ON THE CYBER
FRONT. WELL, THEY DEFINITELY
SHORED UP THEIR DEFENSE BEFORE
THIS CONFLICT, JOE. BUT THAT'S
BEEN ONE OF THE GREAT
MYSTERIES IS WHY HASN'T RUSSIA
SHUT DOWN UKRAINIAN POWER GRID
AS THEY DID IN 2016, WHY
HAVEN'T THEY DONE MORE IN
TERMS OF CYBER ATTACK, UKRAINE
NETWORKS. JEFFREY CARR AGAIN
BELIEVES THAT THIS EFFORT THAT
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE HAS
HAD A ROLE TO PLAY IN
DETERRING THE RUSSIANS. TAKE A
LISTEN TO HIS VIEW ON THIS.
>> LITERALLY HAS NOT BEEN A
SINGLE TARGET, BUT THEY'VE NOT
BEEN ABLE TO ACCESS. AND I AND I THINK THAT MIGHT BE ONE
I THINK THAT MIGHT BE ONE
REASON WHY RUSSIA IS HAS NOT.
BEEN EFFECTIVE IN ITS CYBER
ATTACKS AGAINST UKRAINE. YOU 1
ONE REASON MAY BE BECAUSE
WEDNESDAY WATCH STAR OR
STOPPED ANOTHER REASON MAY BE
BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND HOW
VULNERABLE THEY ARE.
>> SO ONE OF THE REAL FEARS
WITH CYBER WARS ESCALATION.
JOE, SO REAL CAREFUL BALANCE
HERE IN THIS SHADOW WAR. KEN
DILANIAN, AN INTERESTING LOOK
AT A BATTLE THAT WE CAN'T SEE