UPDATES IN YOUR WEATHER. AUTHORITY APP ON THE RADIO BURST.
ATTACKS ON CIVILIAN AREAS, MASS MURDER OF CIVILIANS. AND MOST RECENTLY THIS.
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RUSSIAN AIRSTRIKE IN A SERIES
OF BLASTS WITH BOMBS HITTING A
MATERNITY HOSPITAL IN
MARIUPOL. A TOP REGIONAL
POLICE OFFICIAL STANDING IN
THE RUINS THERE SAID IT IS A
WAR CRIME WITHOUT ANY
JUSTIFICATION. THE WHO SAID IT
HAS CONFIRMED 18 ATTACKS ON
HEALTH FACILITIES IN
AMBULANCES SINCE THE FIGHTING
BEGAN KILLING 10 PEOPLE.
BRITISH PRIME MINISTER BORIS
JOHNSON TWEETED THERE ARE FEW
THINGS MORE DEPRAVED THAN
TARGETING THE VULNERABLE AND
DEFENSELESS UKRAINIAN PRIME
MINISTER, OUR PRESIDENT
ZELENSKY CALLED THE STRIKE
FINAL PROOF. PROOF OF GENOCIDE
OF UKRAINIANS TAKING PLACE.
JOINING ME ON THE MORNING SHOW
FROM HONG KONG, ONE OF THE
WORLD’S LEADING WAR CRIMES
AUTHORITIES, PROFESSOR GREGORY
GORDON, A MEMBER OF THE LAW
FACULTY AT THE CHINESE
UNIVERSITY OF HONG KONG. GOOD
MORNING AND THANK YOU FOR
JOINING US.
>> GOOD EVENING HERE IN HONG
KONG. GOOD MORNING. THEIR
ORDER.
>>BRUCE HAMILTON: THE
INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT
IN THE HAGUE HAS STARTED A WAR
CRIMES INVESTIGATION AGAINST
VLADIMIR PUTIN. THERE IS CLEAR
CUT EVIDENCE OF WAR CRIMES IN
UKRAINE, BUT EXPERTS BELIEVE
BUILDING A CASE AGAINST PUTIN
MAY TAKE TIME. WHY?
>> WHAT WERE THE BALL? I THINK
IT’S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT
RIGHT NOW NO INDIVIDUAL HAS
BEEN INDICTED, PER SE, RIGHT?
SO IT’S JUST THE INVESTIGATION
INTO A SITUATION IN UKRAINE.
AND WE’RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO
IS THEY’RE GOING TO HAVE TO
BUILD UP THE EVIDENCE TO A
POINT WHERE THEY CAN IDENTIFY
SPECIFIC. CHAINS OF COMMAND
THAT WOULD LEAD TO PRUDENT
WHERE THEY CAN ACTUALLY THAT
INDICTED INDIVIDUAL WHO WILL
BE THE ULTIMATE. BUT IT MAY
END UP BEING THE PROOF IS
LOWER AND THE COMMAND CHAIN
SEE HOW THE INVESTIGATION
DEVELOPS.
>>BRUCE HAMILTON: I DO WANT TO
GET TO THAT IN A SECOND. THEY
CALL THIS A TIKTOK WAR BECAUSE
SO MUCH OF IT HAS BEEN
DOCUMENTED ON SOCIAL MEDIA IN
REAL TIME. AND YOU HAVE
FIRST-HAND ACCOUNTS THAT WILL
CERTAINLY HELP PROSECUTORS IS
AUTHENTICATING THE ATTACKS.
ANOTHER STORY.
>> THAT THEY ALL WANT. YOU
KNOW, I THOUGHT ON TIKTOK
RIGHT THE GRAMMAR PAY FOR OR
THAT IT DAMAGES OFF THE WAR
CRIME TAKING PLACE. BUT WHEN
YOU GET INTO COURT AND YOU
HAVE TO AUTHENTICATE AND YOU
HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU
HAVE THE PROPER, I MET A DATA
OR WHATEVER IT IS. THAT’S
GOING TO BE PART OF THE SOCIAL
MEDIA. CREW. THAT IS
OFFICIALLY THERE FOR THAT THE
WHOLE OTHER STORY. REMEMBER,
THE PROSECUTION HAS TO PROVE
ITS CASE BEYOND A REASONABLE
DOUBT. THE OTHER THING THAT I
WOULD POINT OUT IS THAT OFTEN
THE SOCIAL MEDIA THE ONLY
GOING TO BE GOOD IN BEFORE AT
GARAGE OR 8. SO TESTIMONY OR
DOCUMENT. OR SATELLITE
INTERCEPTS THAT COME FROM
OTHER. SOURCES. SO ALL OF THAT
WILL KIND OF WORK TOGETHER. I
THINK. AND THERE WILL BE A
BILL ON THE COMBINATION OF
THOSE LAYERS OF EVIDENCE.
>> SO LET ME GO BACK TO WHAT
YOU STARTED WITH ONE OF THE
BIG CHALLENGES IS PROVING THE
CHAIN OF COMMAND.
>> ABSOLUTELY. I THINK COULD
BE BIGGEST CHALLENGE IN A CASE
LIKE THAT. SO WHAT GOT 2
ELEMENTS TO PROP GETTING
WORKED OUT. THE FIRST IS THE
CRIME ITSELF, IF YOU WILL. SO
WE HAVE TO WORK UNDER OUR WAY
OF THE WORLD THAT YOU YOU’VE
GOT YOUR LIST OF WAR CRIMES. I
WOULD SAY IT KILLING CIVILIANS
WILL TAKE THAT. OKAY. YOU
YOU’VE GOT THAT FRONT. WE’VE
GOT EVIDENCE OF THAT CROP. THE
QUESTION IS WHO CONNECTED TO
THAT EVERY MEMBER OF THE
INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT,
WHICH IS WHAT WE’VE BEEN
TALKING ABOUT, WALK TO
PROSECUTE THOSE WHO ARE MOST
RESPONSIBLE. BUT YOU’VE GOT A
COUPLE OPTIONS. YOU CAN LOOK
AT ARTICLE 25 OF THE THAT’S
YOU. AND THEN YOU HAVE
EVERYTHING PROBLEM. A FOR THE
BOWL TO AIDING AND ABETTING 2
CONTRIBUTION LIABILITY. RIGHT?
AND ALL THOSE DIFFERENT
STANDARD. AND THEN YOU’VE GOT
WHAT WE CALL COMMAND
RESPONSIBILITY UNDER ARTICLE
28. WE HAVE TO SHOW APPEARS
IMPORTANT RELATIONSHIP AND A
SERIES OF OTHER ELEMENT THAT
PROBABLY WERE A LOT OF THE
ACTION IS GOING TO BE IN TERMS
PROSECUTION.
>> THEN, OF COURSE, THERE THE
ISSUE OF TAKING PUTTING INTO
CUSTODY BEFORE HE COULD BE
TRIED.
>> MITCHELL SETTING A AND I
MADE A SHORT OF REGIME CHANGE.
I THINK GOING TO BE REALLY YOU
KNOW, RIGHT NOW, PRETTY I
THINK, PROTECTED BY A LAYER OF
POLITICAL MACHINE, HIS
MILITARY. BUT YOU MIGHT PEOPLE
ON THE GROUND, FOR COMMANDER
GOING TO A LITTLE COLDER WHO
ARE CAPTURED IN UKRAINE, LEE,
AND YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO START
THERE AND THEN EVENTUALLY
BUILD YOUR WAY OFF IN THESE
CASES, WORK WITH LOWER-LEVEL
PROSECUTION AND THEN YOU GET
EVIDENCE AND YOU WORK YOUR WAY
UP PORT OF THE PROPER CHAIN
COMMAND.
>> IS THERE A WAY TO CHARGE
PUTTING DOWN THE ROAD WITH
CRIMES OF AGGRESSION IN A
HYBRID COURT SET UP
SPECIFICALLY TO PROSECUTE
CRIMES TIED TO THE INVASION
LIKE NORBERG TRIAL FOR THE
NAZIS.
>> YEAH. THE POINT YOU REALLY
CAN’T DO IT. THE INTERNATIONAL
CRIMINAL COURT BECAUSE ARTICLE
15, THERE ARE LIMITATIONS
BECAUSE, WELL, THAT IS NOT NOT
SIGNED OFF WITH ANOTHER. THE
KAMPALA AMENDMENT ON
AGGRESSION IN UKRAINE HAVE
GIVEN AD HOC JURISDICTION. BUT
I’M NOT GOING TO COVER A
RUSSIAN. SO YEAH, THE ONLY WAY
YOU CAN PROBABLY DO IT IF THE
SET UP A KIND AND HAD A CAR
TRY VIEWING ALL SOMEWHAT LIKE
THE NORM WORK FRIDAY AT ALL.
THEY’RE REALLY INTERESTING
QUESTION THERE ABOUT
JURISDICTION. YOU KNOW, WHAT
WOULD BE THE JURISDICTION OVER
I TALK THE DAY AND GOVERNOR.
AND SO THE JURISDICTION WAS IN
THAT SENSE FROM A PLAYER HERE
WOULD BE A COMBINATION OF
UNIVERSAL JURISDICTION. WHAT
IF THE HAVE THE PERSONALITY
WOULD BEAT HER FOR REAL? IT
DEPENDS ON WHERE THE TRIAL IS
HELD AND THE WAY THAT THE
TRIAL INSTRUCTOR.
>>BRUCE HAMILTON: WE SEE THE
INDISCRIMINATE BOMBING OF
CHILDREN’S HOSPITAL’S
MATERNITY WARDS, SCHOOLS
BAKERY’S BREAD SHOPS AND ASK
WHY 19TH CENTURY RUSSIAN POET
FEUD OR CHURCH GIVE SAID YOU
CAN UNDERSTAND RUSSIAN RUSSIA
WITH YOUR MIND. WE CERTAINLY
DON’T UNDERSTAND PUTIN’S MIND.
WHAT I DON’T UNDERSTAND AFTER
LISTENING TO YOU IS WILL
INTERNATIONAL LONG NOT MATTER.
DOES THE RULE OF INTERNATIONAL
LAW HAVE TO BE REVISITED GIVEN
WHAT WE’RE SEEING AND THE FACT
THAT MAY NOT HAVE ANY BEARING.
>> WE MIGHT BE SEEING THE END
OF THE ORDER THAT WAS
CONSTRUCTED AFTER THE SECOND
WORLD WAR. SO THE WAY THAT YOU
WOULD SET OFF A SECURITY
COUNCIL GENERAL ASSEMBLY, THE
PERMANENT MEMBER, ALL THAT IN
MY OPINION, IS NOW BEING
CALLED INTO QUESTION BUT TOO
DRAMATIC YET. WE HAVEN’T QUITE
STEPPED OVER THE BREAK. I’M
HOPING THAT WE CAN STILL THAT
THE PROBLEM THAT WE’RE SEEING,
OBVIOUSLY WE NEED TO END THE
AGGRESSION IN UKRAINE RIGHT
NOW. AND WE ALSO HAVE TO
REMEMBER. THE RULE WAS
IMPORTANT NOT JUST FOR
PROSECUTING PEOPLE, BUT ALSO
REMINDING THEM OF WHAT OUR
STANDARD OF ALL, WHAT WE AS A
CIVILIZATION STRIVE FOR. WE
MAY HAVE MOMENTS LIKE NOW. BUT
I THINK IN THE FUTURE WE WILL
SEE THE LIGHT. WE WILL SEE
JUSTICE AND I REMAIN IT OFF