Better Life. >>> WELCOME BACK.
MORE ON TONIGHT’S BOMBSHELL
REPORT COMING FROM BUZZFEED
NEWS.
NEWS. PRESIDENT TRUMP DIRECTED HIS
ATTORNEY TO LIE TO CONGRESS
ABOUT THE MOSCOW TOWER PROJECT."
QUOTING AGAIN FROM THE REPORT,
"THE SPECIAL COUNSEL’S OFFICE
LEARNED ABOUT TRUMP’S DIRECTIVE
FOR COHEN TO LIE TO CONGRESS
THROUGH INTERVIEWS WITH MULTIPLE
WITNESSES FROM THE TRUMP
ORGANIZATION AND INTERNAL
COMPANY E-MAILS, TEXT MESSAGES
AND A CACHE OF OTHER DOCUMENTS.
COHEN THEN ACKNOWLEDGED THOSE
INSTRUCTIONS DURING HIS
INTERVIEWS WITH THAT OFFICE."
A LITTLE REACTION TO THIS
BREAKING STORY TONIGHT.
OUR COLLEAGUE, CHRIS HAYES,
TWEETS, "NIXON WAS LITERALLY
IMPEACHED FOR THIS."
OUR PANEL IS STILL WITH US.
PHIL RUCKER, BARBARA McQUADE AND
EMILY JANE FOX.
BARBARA, LET ME JUST TALK TO YOU
ABOUT THE DEGREE TO WHICH WHAT
MY COLLEAGUE, STEPHANIE RULE --
WHO MY COLLEAGUE, STEPHANIE
RUHLE, CALLS DONALD TRUMP’S TV
LAWYER, RUDY GIULIANI, EMPLOYING
STRATEGY OR A MISINFORMATION
TECHNIQUE OR A PR CAMPAIGN?
BECAUSE FOR ALL OF THE STUFF
THAT YOU SO CLEARLY DESCRIBED TO
US AS BEING LEGAL VIOLATIONS,
RUDY GIULIANI SEEMS TO BE
PURSUING A DIFFERENT STRATEGY IF
IT’S A STRATEGY AT ALL.
>> YEAH, HE SEEMS TO BE BEATING
THE DRUM FOR WHATEVER MESSAGE OF
THE DAY PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTS TO
GET OUT.
GET OUT. HE’S FAR MORE PR MAN THAN HE IS
LAWYER.
LAWYER. AND I THINK THAT THIS, YOU KNOW,
WE’VE SEEN THESE SHIFTING
STORIES, THERE WAS NO COLLUSION,
THEN COLLUSION IS NOT A CRIME,
AND NOW I NEVER SAID THAT
MEMBERS OF THE CAMPAIGN DIDN’T
ENGAGE IN COLLUSION, JUST THAT
PRESIDENT TRUMP DIDN’T ENGAGE IN
COLLUSION.
COLLUSION. AND THAT SUGGESTS TO ME THAT
THAT’S A CONCESSION THAT HE
WOULD ONLY MAKE IF HE IS
CONCERNED THAT THERE MAY BE SOME
HARMFUL F NEWS FULFUL NEWS COMIN
SOME MEMBER OF THE CAMPAIGN
BEING INVOLVED IN WHAT COULD BE
CHARACTERIZED AS COLLUSION.
THERE’S A STRATEGY PROSECUTORS
USE OF SORT OF DEFUSING THE
BOMB, DISCLOSING IT, THEMSELVES,
BEFORE YOUR OPPONENT CAN
DISCLOSE IT SO YOU CAN KIND OF
TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF THE AIR OUT
OF IT.
OF IT. >> IS THERE ANY LEGAL ADVANTAGE
TO THAT?
TO THAT? I MEAN, IN THE END, THESE ARE
LEGAL PROBLEMS.
LEGAL PROBLEMS. DOES -- DOES DOING THAT MATTER
IF IT’S NOT -- IF THERE’S NO
LEGAL STRATEGY BEHIND IT?
>> ONLY IF YOU KNOW -- IT’S NOT
A LEGAL STRATEGY, IT’S REALLY
MORE OF A PERSUASION STRATEGY.
IF YOU KNOW IT’S INEVITABLE THAT
THIS BAD FACT IS GOING TO COME
OUT, IT IS BETTER TO CONTROL HOW
IT COMES OUT.
YOU CAN DISMISS IT, YOU CAN
DISPARAGE IT, YOU CAN MAKE IT
SOUND LIKE IT’S NO BIG DEAL.
SO THAT WHEN THE NEWS DOES COME
OUT FROM YOUR OPPONENT OR FROM
THE PUBLIC OR FROM THE MEDIA,
WHOEVER IT IS, THE PUBLIC SHRUGS
AND SAYS, OH, THAT’S OLD NEWS,
WE KNEW ALL ABOUT THAT, WE HEARD
RUDY GIULIANI TALKING ABOUT THAT
THE OTHER DAY.
IT IS A STRATEGY, IT MAKES ME
WONDER BECAUSE HE’S NOW SHIFTED
THE STORY AGAIN, IF HE DOESN’T
NOW THAT THERE’S HARMFUL
INFORMATION THAT’S COMING OUT
AND HE MAY KNOW THAT BY VIRTUE
OF THE JOINT DEFENSE AGREEMENT
THAT HE HAS WITH A NUMBER OF
OTHER PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE
INDICATED THAT GUESS WHAT ROBERT
MUELLER JUST ASKED ME ABOUT, HE
KNOWS ABOUT THE COLLUSION WITH
PERSON "X," OH MY GOSH, WHAT ARE
WE GOING TO DO?
LET’S GET OUT IN FRONT OF IT.
THAT’S A POSSIBLE STRATEGY HE
MAY BE EMPLOY TLG.
>> PHIL RUCKER, THERE ARE OTHER
NON-TV LAWYERS WORKING BOTH WITH
THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE
PRESIDENT WHO YOU NEVER HEAR
FROM.
FROM. >> THAT’S RIGHT.
THERE ARE ACTUALLY A LOT OF
LAWYERS.
LAWYERS. THERE’S UP WHO WORKS VERY
CLOSELY WITH RUDY GIULIANI, THAT
IS JAY SEKULOW.
HE HELPS WITH A LOT OF THE
COMMUNICATIONS STRATEGY AND IS,
HIMSELF, A LAWYER.
THERE ARE OTHER LAWYERS WHO WORK
EVEN MORE QUIETLY.
EMMET FLOOD HAS BEEN AT THE
WHITE HOUSE NOW FOR SEVERAL
MONTHS.
MONTHS. HE’S A SPECIAL COUNSEL IN THE
WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL OFFICE
WORKING TO PROTECT THE
PRESIDENT, PROTECT EXECUTIVE
PRIVILEGE AND BUILD OUT
STRATEGIES IF, IN FACT, THINGS
DEVELOP THE POINT OF IMPEACHMENT
PROCEEDINGS ON CAPITOL HILL AND
THE NEW WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL HAS
HIRED 17 ATTORNEYS INTO THAT
COUNSEL’S OFFICE IN THE LAST
COUPLE WEEKS IN ORDER TO PREPARE
FOR THE FLURRY OF DEMOCRATIC
INVESTIGATIONS INTO THE
PRESIDENT’S CONDUCT AND EXPECTED
INVESTIGATIONS RATH INTERTHE
PRESIDENT’S CONDUCT, HIS
FINANCES AND CORRUPTION WITHIN
THE ADMINISTRATION.
THE ADMINISTRATION. THERE’S A REAL LEGAL EFFORT.
THERE ARE OTHER LAWYERS AS WELL
HELPING THE PRESIDENT FROM A
PERSONAL STANDPOINT, ESPECIALLY
IN TERMS OF THE ENGAGEMENTS BACK
AND FORTH WITH THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL’S TEAM.
COUNSEL’S TEAM. >> EMILY JANE FOX, WE ARE THREE
WEEKS AWAY FROM THIS TESTIMONY
OF MICHAEL COHEN BEFORE THE
HOUSE.
HOUSE. AS YOU SAY, WE’RE NOT GOING TO
HEAR EVERYTHING.
HEAR EVERYTHING. WE’RE GOING TO HEAR SOME THINGS.
SOME OF US ARE WONDERING WHAT
WE’RE GOING TO HEAR THAT WE
DIDN’T ALREADY KNOW ABOUT FROM
THE SNNTSENTENCING HEARINGS AND
THE GOVERNMENT.
THE GOVERNMENT. YOU’VE TALKED TO MICHAEL COHEN.
HOW IS HE FEELING HEADING INTO
THIS?
THIS? >> I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING HE
HAS BEEN LOOKING FORWARD TO
DOING FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
THERE HAVE BEEN MANY, MANY
MONTHS SINCE THE FBI EXECUTED
SEARCH WARPTRANTS ON HIS HOMES A
OFFICE IN APRIL.
HE HASN’T BEEN ABLE TO TALK
BECAUSE HE’S BEEN PARTICIPATING
IN THESE INVESTIGATIONS AND HE
WAS WAITING FOR A YOUNGJUDGE TO
DOWN AND SENTENCE HIM.
THIS IS A CHANCE FOR HIM TO GET
UP IN FRONT OF THE ENTIRE
COUNTRY AND THE ENTIRE WORLD,
RATHER, AND SAY WHAT HE KNOWS
ABOUT VERY SPECIFIC THINGS THAT
ARE RELATED TO THE PRESIDENT AND
TO CLEAR HIS CONSCIOUS IN SOME
WAY, BUT I WILL SAY HIS THINKING
CHANGED OVER THE WEEKEND WHEN
THE PRESIDENT CALLED IN TO FOX
NEWS AND TOLD JUDGE JEANINE
PIRRO TO LOOK INTO MICHAEL
COHEN’S FATHER-IN-LAW.
COHEN’S FATHER-IN-LAW. AT THAT POINT, HIS CONCERN
SHIFTED TO WHAT AM I GOING TO
SAY, HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE GOING
TO WATCH THIS, TO WHAT IS THIS
MAN CAPABLE OF, WHO IS HE GOING
TO GO AFTER?
AND IS MY FAMILY GOING TO BE
SAFE IF I DO GO AND TESTIFY?
WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO TO
PROTECT ME AND MY FAMILY TO MAKE
SURE THAT THE MOST POWERFUL MAN
IN THE WORLD ISN’T GOING TO GO
AFTER OTHER MEMBERS OF MY FAMILY
OR KEEP GOING AFTER ME IF I DO,
IN FACT --
>> HE’S ALSO ANNOYING, THE ALSO